Is housing still AFFORDABLE?

janyuan

New Member
I am getting married this year and have been actively been searching around for a resale, however the high COV and ridiculous pricing is turning me off as I need to prepare for customary wedding and my mini scale honeymoon. Staying with parents are the only options. I am sure there are many who faces the same issues as me. Please kindly share.
 


ah_faith

New Member
I think it depends on the area of HDB u're looking at. It will be relatively cheaper to get a BTO if you are willing to wait while staying with ur parents. For my case, my customary's in a month's time, my honeymoon not yet planned and my BTO is coming in 3rd quarter this yr. My finances are super tight this year. What I am put off is the start of having kids, as that's another high outflow of income, and not a house that I am put off, since I have always wanted a place to call my own. And my PIL will be staying with us in the BTO. =\ So I guess it's a personal priority issue afterall.
 

janyuan

New Member
Good to hear ur BTO coming. Been trying for BTO and sales of balanced flats all together for 6times and each time, its either out of the number or number too far away to get a chance to choose. Approached our friendly MP and results still e same. My gf and I decided to apply for every BTO that comes along now. Want to settle down yet so many obstacles. Gf and I have been quarreling over this issues alot of times.

Saw the Yishun BTO and going to try our luck even if it is so far away from mrt and so ulu.
Wow u agree to sttay with ur PIL? Then rent out their place? Good idea but u need to bear with it.
 

ah_faith

New Member
I was lucky to be able to get my choice unit in my first attempt. Btw, u should also keep a lookout for those balance units for the BTO which will be released periodically in HDB's website. Perhaps u can try applying for these units?

If given a choice, I will never agree to stay with my PIL. Had quarrels over the customary wedding already but managed to resolve the issue. But scars are lasting, mind you. So I will just have to bear with them since my hubby's the only son and he has a younger sister. =\
 

janyuan

New Member
Always in the lookout for balance units. So far applied 2times but number too far away. Lowering my expectations and psychoing my gf to apply a ulu place is a huge challenge to undertake as I need to constantly remind her that we are average couple and needing to save in case situation arises.

Yes scar are lasting and whenever quarrels arise, either party sure bring it up. Smtimes its like fighting a law suite, see who provide more eveidence. Haa chill cos at least it shows ur future hubby isnt a irresponsible man who forsake their old parents. Glad that u have a roof over ur head. Anyway congrats on ur customary next month =)

Be a happy bride to be =)
 

ah_faith

New Member
Quarrels aint a bad thing. From what I see, the quarrels made the r/s between you and your gf stronger. So I wish you all the best to getting a place where you can call your own soon too! =)
 

lunaaa

New Member
I bought my resale in Aug last year. I monitored the market from Jan to Aug 2010 and because my fiancé could only purchase in Aug due to the fact that his name is still in his mom's flat, we had to watch the COV rise.

At that time, no flat asked for below 70k at all if you are looking at EM, EA and even 5 room flats.but I told my fiancé, having our own place is my number one priority. No way am I going to stay with my own parents or in laws. I'm not like some women, no offence, look at wedding dress or banquet first. To me, having my very own roof above my head is more important and will be worth it in the long run. I guess what I'm trying to say is this, what is your priority? If you have a high tolerance, patience plus your in laws are nice, apply for BTO. Otherwise, settle for less but put all your buck on the flat.

By the way, I paid 50k COV for 5 room. We decided not to get EM in the end. The Reno for EM will hit 70k minimum.
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi Janyuan,

May I know the disparity of your income verses the BTO flat?

How much does a newly wed couple in their 20s earn these days (ie combined household income)?

How much is a BTO flat, a new EC or a resale flat, resale EC now?

The last time I bought an new EC was 7 yrs ago.
I would like to update my knowledge on HDB prices and a young couple household income.

Looking forward to your reply. Thanks.
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi Janyuan,

I can share my combined household income verses new EC price with you.

Our combined household income was about $5k and the new EC was about $450k.

Is it any different now? Although housing prices have increased, I'm sure the combined salary has increase now, compared to 7 yrs ago?

Do you think housing is still affordable now?
That is your question to us. I would like to know the answer too.

Looking forward to your reply. Thanks.
 

muji

New Member
janyuan, valuation prices of resale flats are higher and COV really depends on ur luck and the area u are looking at..if you ask me, I think it is affordable only if hdb review the income ceiling..my htb n I fell out only by a bit and they refused to give us e hdb loan. So in the end, took bank loan with 5% cash + COV, that is a lot of money..it is very upsetting bcoz I really dun see how our future generation can afford houses. What's worse and ironic is that we are not even eligible for the parents' grant becoz the income which til now I cannot understand why staying near parents is tagged to income.

Like joy, I paid a high price and now reno needs another sum of money, but our objectives are very clear, we want to get married and have a roof over our heads so the next few yrs will be financially very very tight..most imptly we found a place both of us like very much..

you may want to look around first and see what the prices are like now..
happy.gif
 

lunaaa

New Member
My area is not a good area, hinterland of Singapore, I like to call it. But the COV is the same everywhere. You may like to hold out a bit more if you still think it is high but bear in mind, you won't have many choices when COV comes down more.
 

powder

Active Member
the best way to improve your chances of housing... is to increase your income... for all the insurmountable thoughts u may have in your heads, this remains the most viable solution If our backs are against the wall in such issues.

wish u guys the best.
 
yes. agree with powder. increasing income to cover the ever increasing expenses is the way to go.

Jan, if ur gf and u can quarrel so many times just for this issue, i dun see how your parents and your gf can stay amicably together. If you think that staying with your parent is an easy way out to settle housing problem, then you'll be terribly wrong! If things are not handle properly, it can cost you your marriage!
 

thiasy

New Member
10 yrs ago, brand new 4 room flat in Sengkang is about $160k. Now, brand new 4 room flat in Sengkang is about $300k. Almost rise by double.

But income don't rise double.
happy.gif
 

powder

Active Member
on average, i agree income hasn't doubled... but we should remember that meritocracy plays a large part of our lives... if income doubles, it should not be becos it doubles for Everyone... and if it does, our properties are most likely to be a good 40% up from currently prices too... which means HDBs would have already hit 1mil.

affordability is very much mkt forces, exception being the new ones that we can apply from HDB... on the same issue, IF we as locals weren't so bent on making the most money out of our HDBs, would the prices even hit this level?

in any case, i think when our parents pass on, some of us are lucky enough to get a little bite out of the pie...
 

powder

Active Member
and in the meantime...

wouldn't it be better to just chart your career path and make your career choices based on Needing to pay 800k for a flat, 100k for a car etc...?

just to share my thoughts from young... is that i based my paths on making my 1st million by 30... if i had planned on 300k or 400k, by the time i'm 30, cost of living would have made most things out of reach. so Plan for the worst, and just do your best... of cos, i didn't make it by 30, but i wasn't far off at 30.

tho i'm not big on discussing things we cannot change, i just wanna re-iterate on the things we CAN change... and that is our mind and how we think. there is absolutely no harm in aiming for higher and having Excess money, than to aim 'just nice' and find ourselves short...

i do hope u guys can achieve what u want... just remember that life seldom offers shortcuts nor will it get easier... we can definitely Hope and Pray for things... but in the meantime, we can also work harder in planning our paths too rite? Plan A, Plan B, Plan C. the best plans are those that we can influence with the higest percentage.
 

ee09

Member
worse is the sandwich class like me n my finance.. we cannot settle for hdb brand new flats n both of us are self employed so cash is very impt to us... he had been saving n trying to make more investment to earn more $$ as our wedding are drawing close..

Worse case scenario, rent a flat for 3 to 6 months then see how is the market..How the prices of private housing or resale flats will come down...
 

powder

Active Member
i doubt it'll come down much since interest rates are so low... as it is, there's no need to sell since the rental more thatn covers the montly instalments, with a thousand to spare...

there's less buyers for hdb, but neither will the sellers remain at the same number with the new measures...
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi ee09,

I feel the price will come down after all the MRT lines are in operation.

Meanwhile, just rent. You are in fact saving hundreds of thousands by renting instead of buying at the high price now.


My tenants actually sold their flat at the peak and choose to rent while waiting to buy cheap again.
 

powder

Active Member
that's an interesting view... that housing prices will come down after all mrt lines in operations... why do u think so?
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi powder,

Because the high price has factored in the future MRT. It will dipped before it go up to the next high.

Just my own humble opinion. I would like to hear from more experienced people, like you. Please feel free to share. Thanks.
 

powder

Active Member
hmm it's just an interesting way to see it... i guess u see all the potential high-price being 'squeezed' at the initial purchase prices... then coming back down to rest abit...

not experienced. anyone can be right... or wrong... the person who puts his/her money down and gets it right - will be the happy one.
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi Powder,

For us, sometimes emotions rule over reasons. Although we know the price will dip, we still went ahead and bought Tennery recently at the pre-launch as our retirement home.

Don't you think it's silly to buy a retirement home so early. But it's interesting to just press a lift button to go to supermarket, clinic and LRT. Easy access to Woodlands, Bukit Timah and Jurong from Bukit Panjang MRT.

Do you think our MRT will be connected to Malaysia one day? Nice to holiday in JB by MRT.

My hubby and I are quite a dreamer. Tennery will be quite old then but I can't imagine how much housing will cost 50 yrs later.
 

powder

Active Member
well our country develops pretty fast, i dun think town is abt orchard in future... of cos that will still be the main, but each different region will have it's town... it's like a small country with states... and inter-state takes like 5mins... haha.

i'm not really jumping in... given the current state, i'm looking to invest in innovation... throw some money away to see if something new can be invented or re-invented... that's my call for now.

i think if it's something within your reach and u like... no harm committing now before our currency gets smaller in value and cost of living drowns what $10 can buy. i see a tall mocha frappucino hitting $8 in a few more years, and chicken rice at $5-6 a plate.
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi Powder,

University fees are increasing all the time.
How much is the increment per year? Is it 6-7%???

I wonder how much I must keep aside for my 2 daughters in 20 yrs time?
Basic Degree?
Professional Degree? Medicine/ Dentistry???

Looking forward to your reply. Thanks.
 

powder

Active Member
that's a tough one for me... i'm not very good with numbers, just logic... so i'll just go by my simple rule of earning more than i can spend... and no doubt we have to work harder than in the past...

i think if u can have at least 3mil sitting in the bank when they turn 18, u'll be fine. it's not gonna be alot of money... maybe equivalent to 1.5mil today... if each kid 500k in education, it's 1mil gone liao... and u can't save on it... like medical bills.

good to be a dreamer... better to be a dreamer who believes his dreams can be attained.
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi Powder,

Wow! 1 mil for 2 kids' education. Must start to plan early.

Luckily, I'm in my early 30s, time is on my side to save and invest for their education and our retirement.

I think Medical Bills and Costs will be a killer in the future. Just hope we don't get any terminal disease that drag on and on.
 

powder

Active Member
well in another 15yrs... i dun see why not... besides, u won't know if your kid happens to be artistically-inclined, which typically requires even more than the usual academic-education.

just a figure... doesn't mean i have... but better to have a number to work on, than to bank on gov subsidies...
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi Kent,

You are right in a way. You have done well in your investment.

You will have a comfortable retirement since you don't have to send children to university.
 

musetta

New Member
Hey Janyuan,

Your post really strikes a chord with me. I've been looking for resale flat for the past months. Decided not to waste my time balloting for BTOs. Tried for 2 years, our ridiculously long Q-no always never fail to kick us out of the race. I'm already in my early 30s and can't afford to wait. I've always been thinking, why can't there be more priorities for 1st-timers who are above a certain age group such as 30-33, more chances as the age group increases, who are trying to get married and have kids? I feel public housing is no longer affordable as they used to be. Whenever I view flats, most sellers are upgrading to condo. It's the sellers' market now and they try to earn as much cash as possible while the iron is still hot. I recently come across a 4-rm flat in a ulu part of Singapore asking for 50K cov, when the house condition is not that fantastic to start with! It's so difficult to own our 1st HDB home. I remembered our minister Mah ever said, if the cov is high, you can always walk away from the deal. But every seller is quoting a high COV, even a 2nd floor unit is asking for at least 5-digit figure. I am contemplating whether to start looking for a 3-rm resale flat instead, perhaps there's a chance of lower cov? Or should I seriously consider cramming together with my bf, his sister and both parents in their 3-rm flat. At least we will have a room to ourselves as his sister is occupying the utility room. Same here, there had been numerous quarrels with my other half over housing issues. Sometimes, I feel frustrated and find that getting married is such a chore...
 

venussnow

New Member
i totally can understand all the frustrated souls who can't get their bto after so many tries. my htb and i gave up last yr after we failed to get a gd Q no for punggol waterway and any other punggol locations n we turned to resale.it only took us 2 mths at resale to find our home and guess wat, we got a letter from hdb to select the bto units.it's so ironic it only came after we completed the procedures for our resale flat. nevertheless, we still love the size and location of our current place :D
 

tweetwee

New Member
I am sympathetic to those who are having housing woes as not so long ago, we were also in the same boat. We bought our flat in 2008 3rd quarter, after failing to get a Q number more than 10times within 2years. It was a difficult time as we tried balloting for units near the parents, plus we are first timers and we still didn't get it! We can only salivate at those who got a unit at Pinnacle. I did not want to stay with in laws so getting our place was top priority. We decided to settle for resale as we saw prices were rising. It was a fast move as we only went for 3 viewings and settled on the 3rd one. It was located in the south west, closed at $5k COV and we didn't renovate. The house condition was livable (to us) though the renovations were done >10years ago, but thank goodness the ex owners were generous with renovations and its quality stayed pretty decent even till today. The only "complaint" I have is the high valuation, >$500k for a 5 room low level flat. We had to take the longest HDB loan at 30years and our household income was >6k/month when we first bought the flat. Sigh 3years on, our income hasn't improved much, so it is going to be a long journey until we have fully paid up. Having said that, we do enjoy the unlimited freedom staying on our own and would not want to give it up.
 

tragic_comedy

New Member
Omg yes! I'm totally facing the same issue as you..didn't manage to get a BTO..so thought we should get a resale flat but the COV is ridiculously high! =((
the only solution now is to move into my in-laws place after we get married and wait =/
have to give up our privacy and freedom..
 

shannat

New Member
i also gv up on BTO. tried a few times either didnt get a Q number or the number is 1000+++ so now looking at resale flat. just saw one we like on sunday, tonight gg for 2nd viewing!
happy.gif


just to check, when u all talk abt high COV, how high is yout HIGH? n how much COV is acceptable?
happy.gif
 

snowydounut

New Member
Personally, after checking with friends around us who also ballot for BTO flats, successful or not, ulu areas or not, I get a feel that, the younger you are, the higher your chance is. AND, seems that successful rate is higher if you go for the less ulu areas nearer to the city.

More people are fighting for ulu areas these days, becos of price tag?
 

ariel84

New Member
Tweety, 5K COV is almost impossible to find nowadays.

We paid about 25K COV for our 5-rm last year (and had to do almost full reno), when the property prices were sky high. We viewed a lot of HDB, some were in terrible condition but the asking COV were 30 - 45K at that time. Not sure if these ridiculous COVs have gone done a bit by now.
 

ariel84

New Member
And we also gave up on BTO after many tries with silly 4-digit Q numbers. And yes, we are first timers too.

Milkie, I think the same as you too, though I don't have any proof.. just so happened that my friends in early 20s tend to get BTO within first or second try, whereas older friends never seem to get.
 

thommy

New Member
ariel, it has gone down slightly now.

those first-timer stuff are rubbish if you ask me...otherwise how come so many first-timers like us don't even get a chance to choose a flat?
 

ariel84

New Member
Thomas, glad to hear it's gone down. I think the time we bought was the worst.

Ya, it's not true about the first timers.. so many friends i know, including myself, can't get a BTO after many tries.
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi ladies,

What about EC? My 1st house is an EC.

No queue at all. We just view the showflat, select the unit, sign and give a deposit. That's all. All done in 1 afternoon.
 

powder

Active Member
i'll just reiterate that the sure way is to simply make more money....

what good is it to go to the same store everyday hoping that the bag u fancy will be cheaper that day? isn't it better to earn the amount to buy it Now, than to hope for a sale?
 


snowydounut

New Member
ariel:
I think the same too. For us, we also get 4 digits Q number in our balloting as first timer.

I think it do help when we decided to get a BTO nearer to city, esp with those BTO that has a higher than usual supply of units, as our ratio chance will increase. While due to higher supply with lower demand becos it too expensive for many to afford, and with a higher % of drop out during selection from those who like to just try their luck in balloting.

Thus, when luck is not with you, planning how to increase your chance is important! In fact, my partner spends time study and understand the "pattern".
 

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