Interacial Marriage - Does it work?

snowmistress

New Member
Boyfriend is a Malay Singaporean (albeit not in the true sense, but you know what I mean), but I'm a foreigner. Is it possible to be married to him, minus the hassles of religion (or the difference of that, and ethnicity)? I don't need more complications than I already have, so genuine advice is really appreciative.

Thank you.
 


simpleman

Active Member
I don't know what you mean.

Malay means muslim and that means you need to convert and have a malay name like siti?
 

latino

New Member
snow, pls give more information.

what nationality are you? what so complicating?

interacial marriages are very common in SG. as for marrying a muslim man, well yes, you hv to convert to islam. many women and men converted. well, unless you hv family's objection.
 

icechoco

New Member
simpleman:
"malay means muslim". You so long stay in Singapore you think all malay = muslims? You dumb or what? Like that.. chinese means buddhist. Indian means Hindu. Angmoh means christian. Duh??!?!

so convert to muslim, "change name to siti"? like that, if convert to christian must change name to english like david? convert to hindu change name to muthu?

how naive can singaporeans get...

snowmistress:
What's the problem? race problem? love problem? Your case seems more like race problem. If race problem, don't get married. If you open your eyes, everywhere in the world there is interacial marriages. Even angmoh themselves inter-married. For eg. dutch with british. american with british. Who cares? As long as you love the person and willing to compromise to build a marriage together.
If you have an issue and complicate it yourself, then advise you to just go find another bf from your own country, own race, own ethnic.
 

powderful

Member
Halo ic...you dumb or what?

Snow mentioned that the BF is Malay and that she dont want to go through the hassle of religion.

So it's just logical to assume that Malay = Muslim.... and the fact that if you marries a Malay muslim, you have to convert to muslim? Do I make any sense to your dumb brain?

So before you sprout any nonsense trying to belittle people's IQ? Go do some logical deduction first...

Still dare to call people dumb....






And almost forgot......DUH!!!
 

simpleman

Active Member
ic,

Malays in SG are mostly Muslims. Yes, we are not like Malaysia where you cannot renounce Islam but it is rare because you would be an outcast - shun by the rest of the muslim community. There are Malays who are not muslims in SG and I know some of them but by and large they remain as muslims at least in name if not in deeds.

And no one says anything about chinese means buddist, indian means hindu and angmor means christian - that is just your extrapolation.

And yes if you convert to muslim you have to attend religious class and you will be given a malay name - this is not a joke.
 

icechoco

New Member
powderful:
you're right. Logical to assume malay = muslim. After pondering and having 2nd thoughts, if i meet a chinese guy, i will also assume chinese = buddhist / taoist. angmoh = christians. And after reading snow post,like you said, her bf should be muslim. Agree with you on that.

But you're wrong, doesn't mean marry malay muslim, have to convert to muslim. You don't make sense to my brain. Because, simple fact, depends where you register your marriage! If you register in ROM, no need to convert. If register in ROMM, need to convert. Duh?! I no need to do logical deduction because i am muslim. So definitely i know better than you. Bahlul.

simpleman:
you don't need to change your name. And you won't be given a malay name. Your IC still stays the same. It's all up to you whether to change or not. And i am not joking.

And you don't have to attend religious class. Not compulsory. If you can say the "kalimah syahadah" with 2 male witness during the conversion process, you're already converted. Whether or not, you want to legalize it, it's up to you.

In Singapore, whether you renounce islam or not, nobody cares. We're not in Malaysia. And whether being shun by the rest of the muslim community, i don't think anybody cares. Shun by own relatives, parents, friends, yes probably.
 

simpleman

Active Member
ic,

Well, since you are a muslim then you should know better.

What you said make sense but does not mean you go around calling people dumb.

It means noting to me.

OK. I have a few friends that married malay and yes they do convert to muslim. They attended religious classes and they do have a malay name. But as you said, there is no need to change the name in the IC.

And yes, I used to have a malay girl friend many many years ago. And I was told, that I have to convert - no choice. Otherwise gf will be shun by her dad/family, friends.

This is just the social norm for malay. I may be wrong cos it is quite a number of years back - perhaps now it is changing?
 

powderful

Member
Haiz, ic....that's why I say you no logic lah...why you still no understand...

If Snow include in religion as a "HASSLE" then it means that the possibility of her being asked to convert to a muslim exists... so what is wrong with us assuming that the BF is a Malay Muslim? Stop trying to defect away your dumbness by changing the topic halfway...So are we right to assume that the BF is a Malay Muslim?

So what if you are a muslim? Does it grant you the right to call people dumb, naive and act like a prat?

I have no qualms about you coming in to share your knowledge as a muslim, just dont come in here and starting tell people that they are dumb and naive when they are making correct assumptions...

You mess with my frens you mess with me!!!
WHERE'S MY HALAL TOFU~!
 

icechoco

New Member
simpleman,
The reason why your friends who converted to muslim attended religious classes is because they want to legalize their conversion process. Before they're given the "green card" (this card is used to legalize all your personal documents for eg. passport / IC etc except Birth cert; can't be change), they will be tested on prayers & kalimah syahadah. For a "new sister / brother" who is learning a "new religion" to them, of course, they have to attend classes to be able to learn the prayers.

Like i said, shun by own family / friends / relatives, this can't be help. If outsiders, they don't really care coz they don't know you mah! Unless you referring to KPO makcik neighbours?! That one also can't be help lah. If the makcik neighbours like to gossip, there's nothing you can stop them.
 

icechoco

New Member
powderful,
eh, didn't i say you're right? How many times must say ah?!!

Halal Tofu? Err..tofu no need to be halal. It's not chicken meat or beef or mutton.
 

icechoco

New Member
powderful:
i always provide constructive comments but i do get agitated when ppl assume malay means muslim. Because it doesn't apply now in this century. During our parents' time, yes. Our time, no.
For snow's postings, her bf could be muslim that's why she's in agony. No idea why. Could be her bf forced her to convert and register their marriage at ROMM.
 

powderful

Member
ic, you dont get my tofu comment lah...

never mind lah....too troublesome to explain...

Peace...
happy.gif
 

powderful

Member
yup, in that case, I think a muslim will be in a better position to advice her on her choices...

You did provide some good insight into life as a muslim...
 

snowmistress

New Member
Um, no flame wars please. I appreciate the constructive comments but name callings are a no-no, thank you
happy.gif


"hassle" = decisions that are floating about in my mind right now, questions unanswered made me pretty much uneasy. I know in the end it's up to us, but it won't hurt asking for someone else's two cents, would it?
happy.gif


I mean, what ARE the possibilities here?
 

snowmistress

New Member
ALSO, quick question: If we decide to go through the whole ROM thing, are there religious people that would step in and start giving orders and directives?

Thanks in advance.
 

simpleman

Active Member
snow,

I guess IC has provided a few alternatives.

There isnt a need for you to convert to be a muslim if you are going to ROM. However, he may have pressure from his family to register at ROMM, and that means conversion to islam.
 

mozzarella

New Member
Snow, everything is possible. but what you both are willing to do for this marriage. Who to give up their roots for the other. As long as u both got that part figured out. Everything is possible. For me i know it's impossible for me to give up my roots. So a husband of different culture would be a big no no to me.
 

latino

New Member
snow, got the ROMM link for you. not sure if this will help you -

http://app.romm.gov.sg/internet/about_marriage/romm_documents.asp

ic, no need to be so agitated la. once you get agitated, your 'constructive' comments will not look very 'constructive' and your outburst really uncalled for...quite unnecessary la. we dont always know everything and we are learning from each other. no offence here la.

anyway your explanations hv been most informative and i am sure snow benefitted from them too. i know i did just by reading them.
happy.gif
 

cuclainne

New Member
Hi Snow, you might want to check out this thread http://www.singaporebrides.com/forumboard/messages/36737/261821.html?1186985613

Yes, you may marry your boyfriend without the hassle of converting by way of civil marriage - registering your marriage at ROM. However I am sure that some in his family might not take kindly to this idea - after all, a majority of inter-racial couples in the Malay community do convert to Islam. My husband converted and yet, we are still look down upon by some in my dad's side of the family.

You mention that there are complications - care to share what these are? I've been married to a foreigner for about 1.5 years now .. so far our relationship is similar to that of any other couples, we have our ups and downs .. we don't let our ethnicity get in the way .. if there are differences, as a couple we should work them out together ..
 

icechoco

New Member
Snow,
"ALSO, quick question: If we decide to go through the whole ROM thing, are there religious people that would step in and start giving orders and directives?"

Snow...your answer to the above question is NO. We're not in Malaysia. We're in Singapore. We're not an islamic country. We're a secular country. Therefore, you won't get a syariah court order.

Seriously, marriage is just not about converting here & there. It's between 2 people willing to build a marriage together. If you marry your own race, it's also the same thing. Even marrying own race but both are not working hand-in-hand to make the marriage work, will also end up in divorce what!

If you talking about legal issues, one thing you have to consider is that once you marry under ROMM, it means in any case of divorce proceedings, it will FIRST go through the Syariah Court and not the Civil Court. Hence, Muslim laws will apply. Understand?

Put aside other people's opinions and all those KPO ppl makciks, amah, apek whom you think will gossip about you..blah blah blah.. These gossips are common even if you marry your own ethnicity.

So if i'm in your position now, these are the questions that i will start pondering carefully and answering them as well as discuss with my FH:

1. Do i love my FH?
2. Do i think i can make my marriage work?
3. Can i accept Allah as my God?
4. Can i accept the religion wholeheartedly?
5. If i convert, am i going to really practice it or convert for the sake of converting?
6. If i have children next time, and sway my marriage fails, what will happen to my children's upbringing?
7. If in the case of divorce (assume you convert and register in ROMM), what are the procedures like?
8. What are my chances of being able to win custody of my children?
9. Will my family accept my "new path"?
10. Do i really believe in the religion? (this must come truthfully. Only you can answer this).
11.Can my FH accept if i don't convert?
12.Can my FH accept if i convert but i don't practice it?
13. Can my FH be able to defend me if his own family objects?
14. Is my FH agreeable that we compromise to practice both his race culture & my culture?
15. What are the cultures that i am still able to practice if i convert? (For this, it's better for you to ask the right people, for eg.. the ustazah / ustad from the converts association)
 

snowmistress

New Member
Ice (and everyone else),

Thanks for the great advice. I really do appreciate everyone giving their ideas and suggestions constructively.

I am of the opinion, that people are of a certain religion mainly because of where they were born. Two people from different countries meeting each other and falling in love should not have religion imposing upon them to do something they don't to.

I myself cannot put this in words so easily at the moment. Right now things aren't critical, but it could be because of the enlightening feedback I've gotten from everyone here.

I'm hoping things will look up soon. Meanwhile, I'd love to share more thoughts.

It feels good to be in love
happy.gif
 

jzz

New Member
Hi guys ,,really need your advise. Pls help me get out of this confusion . The problem is tat Im a indian muslim and my husband to be is a hindu .
I lov him alot and have decide to have a civil marriage at ROM . We both are not goin to forsake our religion . I also dont want him to convert just for the sake of marriage where he will not be able to accept Islam whole heartly. Due to this I have not told my parents or anyone abt our wedding end of this Dec 2007. Only relatives n frens from my boyfrend side knows abt our wedding n none from my side . Im not able to tell my family as im afraid of the outcome especially my mum who just went through a divorce with my dad after being married for 27 yrs.
 

teachild

New Member
Geee, Zana, dats tough...now really depends on how close u are to ur parents (and family) lor..

As a muslim, dun need to tell u all abt wat's there to noe on the foundations of being a muslim, the consequences of such marriage in Islam like hvg kids from dis marriage etc - cos u shd noe dat well by now, being an adult and a born Muslim. It's ur call in this life...

U seem more concerned wif how ur parents wld feel, so, IMO, wat u need to ponder wld be whether being estranged (in a situation where ur parents cannot accept dis marriage) from ur parents is a life u wanna lead lor..
 

pink_paradise

New Member
Hi Snow,
I'm facing the same problem with you. My bf is a free thinker whereas I'm a Muslim. He does not want to convert just for the sake of marriage. My dad insisted him to convert and even seeks suggestions from his relatives. My dad even threatened to disown me if I married him w/o him converting into Islam. So now, we have decided to proceed with our ROM on 06/07/08 w/o him converting into Islam. We have also decided our future child's race will be Chinese. Why? This will benefits him in future for applying in Government Sector Jobs. You may think I've planned this too far far ahead but its better to have a plan for the future than nothing.
I saw this article in the internet and wanted to share with you.

"The Singapore Civil Court recognises the marriage between a Muslim woman and a non-Muslim man. However, such marriage is not being recognised by the Singapore Shariyah Court (and in Shariyah Law). Hence, matters concerning marriage of such kind will not be handled by the Singapore Shariyah Court.

Such marriage is valid and the off-springs are legitimate children according to the Singapore Civil Court. However, in Islam, such marriage is invalid and the children are illegitimate off-springs of the Muslim mother. This is because the union of a Muslim woman to a non-Muslim man is forbidden in Islam and considered as ‘Zina’ (fornication). According to the Islamic faith, a Muslim woman must be married to a Muslim man."

These are my 2 views of our marriage:-
1) We are married to each other and not to our religion.
2) I'm sinned if my bf did not convert to Islam and I'm also sinned if my bf convert to Islam w/o a sincere heart.
So, why don't we just follow our hearts and proceed with it...we only get to live once in this lifetime why can't we live happily before we die.

Cheers Snow...No Worries ^_^
 

newgal17

New Member
Hello All,

I didn't realise the seriousness of marrying a Muslim only after we have filed for our marriage with ROM and MUIS sent a letter to my bf saying that they have been informed that he's has filed for Civil Marriage and they wanted to discuss with him (which they didn't specify about) in the letter.

We feel that it's intruding and mentally distrubing since we have made it clear that we want to go through with a Civil Marriage instead of religious one. I am a Buddhist and him a Muslim (not Malay Muslim) but we have agreed since day one about our stands with having two different religions.

Thanks for sharing your experiences here and I am glad to find out that we can proceed with a Civil marriage without any obstacles. There seems to be many other things to worry about marriage without having to go through additional processes.
 

simpledi

New Member
ic(icechoco)

I was just browing through the forum and I read your reply to Snow's question.

I know that some malays in Singapore are not practicing their islamic teachings. But you're a muslim, shouldn't you encourage Snow to convert into a muslim if she wants to marry a muslim man?

Why do you give suggestions like registering in ROM instead of ROMM? If they register in ROM, they are only married in the laws of Singapore government, but not in the eyes of Islam. Aren't you encouraging them to commit "zinah"?

I am sorry. But I really do not like the way you portray yourself as a muslim. The way you behave and act, that is how the public is going to judge how a muslim is suppose to be. If you do not love or respect your religion, do not announce that you are one.

Do not tarnish the beauty of Islam.

For Snow, if you are married, I hope that you are married as a muslim. And if you are, I pray that you'll lead a life of a muslimah.
 

simpledi

New Member
ic(icechoco)

I was just browing through the forum and I read your reply to Snow's question.

I know that some malays in Singapore are not practicing their islamic teachings. But you're a muslim, shouldn't you encourage Snow to convert into a muslim if she wants to marry a muslim man?

Why do you give suggestions like registering in ROM instead of ROMM? If they register in ROM, they are only married in the laws of Singapore government, but not in the eyes of Islam. Aren't you encouraging them to commit "zinah"?

I am sorry. But I really do not like the way you portray yourself as a muslim. The way you behave and act, that is how the public is going to judge how a muslim is suppose to be. If you do not love or respect your religion, do not announce that you are one.

Do not tarnish the beauty of Islam.

For Snow, if you are married, I hope that you are married as a muslim. And if you are, I pray that you'll lead a life of a muslimah.
 

nuar

New Member
Hi, people.
I also have the same issue.
I'm is non-practicing Christian, and my boyfriend is Muslim. His family is not very practicing, they just follow some basic rules (like no pork, drink and fasting on Ramadan).

Just thought I'll share my thought here.

I've decided to convert, as for me any religion doesn't matter. now i'm Christian, and it doesn't mean anything to me, so what's the difference if I become Muslim. for me it doesn't matter. I believe in what i believe that is not linked to any religion. (that's only my personal position, no offenses please)
but for Muslim, my bf and his family, it's important that I convert so that the marriage is real. That's why I'm converting.

also, i have a few questions:
if I convert, do I really have to learn all the prays and etc, and will they test it in detail?

I'm foreigner, working on employment pass here. do you know if I have to change my name in my passport? (Hm, I know this question is rather specific, but maybe somebody has any friends who passed through similar situation).
thank you.
 

yana69

New Member
To: Pink_Paradise,

Hie.. i agreed with wat you have to say about this Muslim+hindu marriage..Suprising a few do passed through similar situation like i do.. I would like to seek advise from all of the readers..here goes..

Im a muslim & my BF is a hindu.. We have a daughter before we even got married. My family does not even practice muslim teachings.. but he can be said the religious type too. i mean at least he went to temple..pray..fast & so on.. my family separated me & baby from him..& since den he have not seen his child.. we still talk on the phones, msn..but now i made the decision to leave my family & marry him..w/o him converting to islam..its gonna be a little or damn difficult as he is hoding a work permit..& another thing is that my family is the type where they are capable of anything.. i mean, they can beat me & my BF..or maybe lodge a false report saying tat he kidnapped me or something.. please advise on wat i should do..

I love him alot & the little family that we've built..i want the best for my baby..

thanks in advance!
 

cuclainne

New Member
julia, perhaps it's better for you to talk to someone from the converts' association before you decide to take the plunge.

my husband is an atheist before he met me and he converted too, but in his home country. there is no need to change your name in your passport (sill remain as is) unless you decide to change your name legally to a muslim one which means that you will have to. he is also on EP.

kecik, now that you have a child, i think you have to think about her welfare too. before you get married to a work permit holder, you must have a written letter from MOM to do so. i think if you just marry like that, they can send your husband home.
 

yana69

New Member
To: Cuclainne

thanks for the advice..yeah i have checked that we need to write letter for MOM's approval before we could actually get married. . my BF has been working in singapore for 14 years.. & we've known each other for about 3 years plus.. he has been a very responsible father..& i'm happy that he did.. there's too many obstacles that we're going thru..my mom & a few of my siblings does not approve of us.. do u really think its the best for me to leave my family & go with him..?? i appreciate your advice..
this post is open for all to comment..

thanks,

loves.
 

cuclainne

New Member
perhaps your family have their reasons for not approving the relationship .. if he has been a responsible father and husband, perhaps then it's time for you to make a decision .. in my opinion, a family should not be apart.

whether you seek your family's approval or not, it's for you to decide but i hope you have taken the time to think of all the possible consequences of your action.
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
Kecik, the fact that you already have a child with your bf may help in getting an approval from the authority to get married, so I heard.
 

yana69

New Member
Hi Cuclainne,

Yes he have been a very responsible father & as a husband.. He did his part.. maybe they may have their own personal reasons to disapprove my relationship..anyway, are u a muslim?

Doll - thanks for the info..=)) appreciate it loads!!
 

yana69

New Member
Cuclaine - you mention in one of your reply to SNOW that you're married to a foreigner for about 1.5 years..can i ask, how long does it take for your husband to get a PR? & also for my case, is there any chances that my husband will be banned from entering singapore?
 

cuclainne

New Member
we've been married for almost 3 years now .. my husband does not have a PR, because we haven't sent in the application yet.. and probably might not because he does not seem quite keen on it. he's been on EP all along.

i'm not sure about your case but my uncle was banned from coming in. i don't know the specifics but he's malaysian and my aunt married him in malaysia .. when it was found out, he was banned from coming in so my aunt had to bring the kids every weekend into malaysia. but that was ages ago .. the eldest child is now in her early 20s.
 

nuar

New Member
Hi, girls.
thanks for your answers.
I've abandoned this topic for a while...
happy.gif

I'm already converted. and it was actually very easy. and I really enjoyed the courses that they have at Darul Aqram (is that correct spelling).

the conversion procedure was easy. Evaluation is basic, and it's more like an interview, than a test.
they never asked me the prayers or anything that I was afraid of.
happy.gif

as to the employment pass and passport - I don't need to change my name there. I only have my new name in the conversion card.
Now I start planning the wedding already, but still uncertain, coz the date is not set yet.
 

aqua_girl

New Member
Hi all ...

I was glad to come across all the comments here ... I am in the same boat as many of them ...
My FH is a muslim while i am not ... due to my family i am not able to consider converting ... so we will prob haf to go through civil marriage ... i am totally cool with children following father in future and be muslims ... my concerns are more the legalities ... since it is not recognised by Muslim law in the event of separation or death will the civil law be in place or muslim law take over?? what if we write a will?

Realli appreciate some insight on this ...
 

eay

New Member
Hi aqua_girl,
i also have very similar questions as you. I myself have converted and am married to my hubby. He's not a practising muslim and I only converted as his parents wld hv disowned him otherwise. We've been trying to figure out how to get around the legalities issue...even went to consult some lawyers abt this. For my case & in event of death, think the muslim law will hold precedence unless we write a will in a certain way. There are apparently many muslims who write wills to ensure that they can leave their assets to whomever they want to in which ever way etc etc... For your case, think even though yuo guys marry under civil law, his relatives might be able to challenge his will as he is a muslim. Of course, if his relatives dun challenge, you might not have any problems. Hope this helps to clear some doubts on inheritance issues. I wld advise that you find some muslim lawyers to advise in detail.
 

amysinyee

New Member
hi all...
i have many question and please help me out from these confusion.
(1)I myself have converted to islam (born as chinese and parent converted since i was 2 years old).I never praticing islam teaching as my parent also and i have baptism to christian since 2006 because i believe in jesus. I was converted without my knowleadge and i have try to get rid by appeal release me from the islam since i still using my chinese name.so what should i do now?
(2)Now am 26, my bf was free thinker we decide to getting married but in malaysia law we cant submit our registration without register at muis first .thats why im thinking to register at singapore but we both not citizen either pr so what should we do?
(3)am not diploma holder but i wish to apply LPR at singapore because dont want stay at malaysia ...what should i do?im really desperate now hope u all can help me thanks.
 


yuene

Member
Hi alsy,

I can't help you much with regards to point (1), but with regards to point (2), you may want to look up the ROM website: http://app.rom.gov.sg/internet/reg_info/rom_preparation.asp

Nothing to prevent you from filing a notice of marriage with ROM even if both of you aren't citizens or PRs, but do note that at least one of you must have been in Singapore continuously for 15 consecutive days before filing for marriage. Both of you will need your passports.

With regards to point (3), again, I can't help you much there, but my friend, who is Malaysian, doesn't have a diploma either but he's been a PR here for over 10 years now. You will have to have a valid work pass (which means you also need a job here). Check ICA's website for more details on applying for a PR: http://www.ica.gov.sg/page.aspx?pageid=151

Good luck.
 

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