I just broke up

[sgbabydoll]

Once or repeated, ONS once or with multiple strangers, or a full-blown affair, is still cheating. It's not just a mistake and it's no accident. It breaches the trust between two people. We will not be happy if we can't trust the person we are living with.

 

[miloice]

haha.... multiple strangers. Wow!

actually, it might not be cheating. It depends on the couple. Some marriages function with both closing one eye to stuffs. While others are open to swings.

But generally, I think most of us are not in this domain or at least, most marriages don't start this way.

 

[limpat1]

cheaters suck. . . really. there's never a good reason to cheat anyone under any circumstance.

i think swinging is gross too. why would anyone want to do that

 

[sgbabydoll]

Swingers also got rules to abide by. If you deviate, it is also called cheating haha

 

[miloice]

pat, its easy for us to say all these hypothetically. But with matters of the hearts, when u r in it, its not so clear anymore.

Most 3rd parties and people in affairs are not bastards and sluts / hookers. They are normal people like us, some with really strong conviction on morals and values too.

 

[sgbabydoll]

Why are swingers gross? They swing with their own kind and it is a mutually consensuous thing.

I also don't think cheaters suck because like Milo has said, it's not just matter of the flesh but also a matter of the heart. It's complex.

 

[limpat1]

well... i guess doLL and Milo are right. everything is really subjective and never really clear at face value. i have never cheated and probably never will. matter of the heart or not, cheating is really immoral and shows the lack of integrity and utmost cowardice that is within that person.

 

[miloice]

"i have never cheated and probably never will"

this claim has no real value actually. I had been tempted and survive it thus far. But, I will never so sure that I will never fall. Its so easy to say it. Just be careful of the false sense of confidence and faith over your own conviction. The awareness of one's weakness is important to help us guard against it.

Personally, I do not agree with swinging and cheating just as you too. But, I'll not be so quick to condemn someone based on their mistakes alone. We gotta look at the situation and understand his/her character before even deciding to believe in their reasons or not.

my 2 cents.

 

[limpat1]

Milo

good that u have survived. if u have a really strong character, that i do think u have, i dont think that u will cheat as long as u know your boundaries. furthermore, ur married. so im pretty sure as a married man, u are more mature and know what is good for yourself.

im not putting down cheaters, but im actually gunning down the act of cheating.

 

[miloice]

Pat,
yah. think most of us do not approve of the act itself.

Apart from character, u need to understand every individual urges and sexuality differs. Unlike women, men are easily tempted visually. And the stupid guy's ego is easily blown up, not to mention the peer pressure. Also, our differing needs (not just physical ones) will also make us hunger if remain unfulfillable over a long time. And if we go closer to the heart matters, we are all emotional, we fall in love subconsciously mostly. And we could be in denial due to our own strong convictions until a point where we become too weak and consumed by it. In everything, we need to look at the full picture, there are the push and pull factors. The person's character is only one of the factor.

It is not difficult to understand how someone craving hungrily is more likely to fall than one that is contented. Likewise, the exposure also makes the difference. I would think that moderate exposure to temptation is needed to train a person's will power to resist. If someone hasn't cheated due to the lack of exposure. Then, its pretty much a blank piece of paper. That's actually very risky. There is no way to remain in a temptation free control environment for life.

hi, marriage don't make me anymore mature. Its only a piece of legal contract. Its more an assurance for the folks and commitment that my wife needs. To me, its just another step in the relationship. I don't value actually so much on what I said at the solemnization. Promises have no meaning for me except to give those the need it the sense of assurance. I value my relationship and happiness. And everything else (including MIL prob / fights etc) are part and parcel of this journey together. It is the walk itself, the experiences that makes us mature.

 

[sgbabydoll]

Frankly, we don't have to agree with swinging or swingers. They simply exist. They participate in an activity that is not mainstream.

On cheating, I will never say I won't cheat because I don't know what will happen in the future. But as far as now, I would not want to cheat on my partner because I will be cheating myself first and foremost by cheating on him and to be living in webs of lies is a sorry state to me.

When I was very young, I had said I would never smoke because I did not see the need to, but I do not condemn smokers nor the act. And I never touched a stick till a few years ago when I dabbled at smoking a stick offered by a friend. Since then, I smoke on a leisurely basis, like a few times a year when the mood, ambience and company call for it. But I will not pick up habitual smoking because too much of it does give me palpitation.

Never say never.

 

[miloice]

Only in death, things are final and will never happen again.

 

[powder]

patracia,

"he treats me like a lady, makes me feel like a queen. basically, a gentleman.

he sacrifices a lot for me. his family, his friends, his whole social life would come second to me.

he declares his love not with money but with sweet little hand-crafted things. he's not rich but he still tries to spoil me whenever he can.

he gets along so well with my family and friends."

- basically, most guys are capable of doing that when they're wooing u. nothing fantastic to be honest... and letting his family/frens/social life take second place after u - simply shows his priorities At That Point.

obviously, u'd like to retain those thoughts and feelings he gave u when he made u his number one.

 

[limpat1]

powder

when a guy is capable of doing all those things even after being with me for over 7 years, he's definitely not wooing me anymore. so i gotta give my ex credit where credit is due.

 

[vios]

pat,

u can continue to dwell in those "sweet little things" as long as u want...
and insert 10k credits into his "capability" as much as u want...

but pls rem that u are not moving on from the past, because u're allowing it to affect your judgement on the realistic front...

 

[miloice]

Pat, no one is taking this credit from your ex. But rather, your frog in the well thinking that is taking away the credit from MOST men.

These sweet things are nice and good. But, any guy that understands his mate better would know how to pamper them too. You are making a big deal over something that is really common. I hate to say it,,, but its a very 'xiao nu ren' thinking to only value this kind of pamperings.

It could be so important to you, I'm not going to dispute that. Just find guys that are willing and enjoy pampering you. There are plenty of man other than your ex. Stop thinking that he is the rare few that would pamper a woman he loves.

To me, wooing my wife doesn't stop in 7 days, weeks or yrs. This dating and courtship must be sustain throughout the relationship to keep the sparks and romance alive. Its all part of giving and taking in the relationship.

 

[limpat1]

ok i get it now. i want to and eventually i will move on. im gonna leave it all behind and look for new frontiers. as of now, singlehood is great. i'll take it slow from here

 

[miloice]

all the best & cheers.

 

[limpat1]

thx Milo

and doLL, littlewoman . . . and all actually

 

[lovingyou]

Pat: kanbatei ya.. pursue the moving on with an open mind and you will realise that forgetting isn't hard at times.

 

[sgbabydoll]

Hey, Pat, do you really know what has gone amiss? I think this missing piece of puzzle is important to locate if you want to reconcile with your ex-bf.

Seriously, I have met guys like your ex-bf, so I would say he is not unique or one-of-a-kind.

 

[limpat1]

what u talking abt doLL?
what am i supposed to look for?

 

[sgbabydoll]

Why did he go astray despite centering his life around you?

Also, what he is capable of or willing to do for you may not be qualities or attributes. I don't know about you but I don't look at what a guy can do for me because what makes him unique isn't what is is capable of or willing to do for me.

 

[miloice]

doll is right. if you are exploring the possiblities to reconcile, then both of u need to address the issue together. Else, it could always happen again. But this is if you want to patch things with your ex.

 

[limpat1]

thing is milo/doll,

i was his 1st gf. he never dated any1 b4. we spoke abt this last year. he said that he was just trying to see what another was like. so thats it. he didnt give any other reason.

but doll, what do u look for in a guy?

 

[pinktweet]

Milo
"To me, wooing my wife doesn't stop in 7 days, weeks or yrs. This dating and courtship must be sustain throughout the relationship to keep the sparks and romance alive. Its all part of giving and taking in the relationship."

How i wish my hubby can see the above .. sigh ..

 

[lovingyou]

Are u also issues with your HB?

 

[miloice]

pat, that could really be the reason.

I have a very good lady friend. She dumped her 1st bf of 6 yrs just to play and experience dating other men. In 3 months of breakup, all the reflection and experiencing fun as a single, she was pretty sure her ex was the one for her. All the long they remained in contact although her ex was super hurt.

Just when she want to speak to him about reconcilation, she then realized that her ex was seeing someone new. He was going to engage with a new gal he found online. Within months, they were married. This friend of mine took it really hard. To her, this bf was the best ever and she let it go. You can all it 7 yrs itch, they just wondered for too long if this is really it. They never know until they try with someone else.

Anyway, yrs has passed and she is now happily married to a really great and romantic guy. I'm very happy for her now. It took her a long while plus some rebound relationships to get over. But eventually, she is much surer about what she needs and to cherish it even more.

I did mention I was tempted before. In work, I had my crashes. It comes in many forms, each time me realizing I need to guard from more angles. The 1st big one was a colleague from sales dept. She was big-eyed, tan sporty gal. Great body and very proactive and initiative. Started with simple support for the system I was maintaining. She was my user, then came the casual emails and jokes. Then her direct advances. For me, I was sweep away with the flattery. I'm the traditional chap that does all the wooing. Each time a gal that likes me, I didn't have the chemistry. But this one was different. She is hot loh. Thankfully, I didn't fall.

Then other times, its more friendships that turn into attraction especially when overseas. We are lonely and I just drive my colleagues around. The compassion and instinctive brotherly part of my made me so much to protect, console and help her. Again, I started to think too much of the colleague.

Each episode, I learn something new from it. The more I learn, the more I realize how vunerable we really are. Emotions are dangerous. And no one can guard it except ourselves. Especially not our partner, they cannot do the policing for us.

 

[miloice]

PinkTweet,

why wish? You choose your partner. If you need to be pampered constantly, u need to find someone willing and enjoys doing so constantly.

Being the youngest, I have been very well taken care by my close family. In me, I have so much to share with my partner. Someone that loves and needs me to shower pamperings on. That someone that will be motivated to return the same love to me. I found this perfect match in my wife. So, its win-win. I don't need to wish for her to be different from what she is.

At the end of the day, u must 1st be clear of what you really want and need. There are alot of things in life that is nice to have. When we read or hear from others. Oh.... its so nice. How I wish for it too. But, everything comes with some price. I've my many short comings too.

Pasture is always greener elsewhere. What is more important is being true to yourself and don't get your life short-changed. We live only once. Live that to the fullest.

 

[lovingyou]

It is always better to leave the fantasy as it is..

 

[limpat1]

Milo,

u seem like a great guy. just thought u shld know

 

[sgbabydoll]

Hi Pat, I agree with Milo that there is a danger of being faithful due to unexposure. I think faithfulness forms the very basis of any exclusive relationship. You can expect it, yet, you can't demand it from your partner.

But for me, I value truthfulness over faithfulness.

 

[limpat1]

yup. i agree too. truthfulness is way better than faithflness. but both together is best

 

[sgbabydoll]

You have asked me what I look for in a guy. You see, our interaction with people either brings out the best or worse in us. So, above all else, I want to be with a guy who allows me to feel at ease being myself and who brings out the best in me. He does not take away anything from me, such as my self-respect, self-love, etc. And vice versa of course.

 

[limpat1]

yup yup. . . i like that doll. thats all we ever need in a guy i suppose. as simple as it sounds, it is still difficult to find such guys :/

 

[sgbabydoll]

It's that someone who would add to your life, but you must first be a woman that is already at ease and happy with herself.

 

[lovingyou]

We mus understand ourselves before we are able to find someone that matches with what we are and what we looking for..

 

[limpat1]

i guess i already know what i want... i must be ready to let my past go sooner than later. to forgive or not to forgive. thats the question i must answer 1st

but surely, i will move on from here. no use getting stuck here right

 

[sgbabydoll]

Forgive is forgive. Reconcile is reconcile. They are two different things. One does not necessarily lead to the other.

 

[lovingyou]

Agree with Doll.. but reconcilation could also means reconciling back as friendship? Pat, don't always look back.. what's past has past. The present and future are the ones you shld concentrate on.. The memories you shared with A is happy but if you dun move on, noone and yourself will be able to create more and more of such happi/wonderful memories.

 

[limpat1]

hmm? if i forgive him, why would i not want to reconcile with him right?

 

[sgbabydoll]

Let me attempt to explain the difference the way I see it.....

The choice to forgive someone for what he/she does against us rests solely in us. The person whom we forgive need not undergo any change in behaviour, nor even ask for our forgiveness. When we forgive we let go of our hatred or contempt for that person, and move on ourselves.

On the other hand, the act of reconciliation requires a change in behaviour in one or both parties with the aim to rebuild a relationship that has been broken. However, to experience true reconciliation one must forgive first.

 

[lovingyou]

Pat: from my personal perspective, forgiving him is at peace with yourself, as you have choose to let go of the incident. Whether the 2 of you might get back together is a different story altogether. You are jus letting go of yourself in a way through the forgiveness..

 

[limpat1]

ok ok i get it now. i see the difference. if i want to reconcile, i have to forgive. but if i forgive, i dont really have to reconcile.

these two things will take awhile to actually happen. not that they cant happen but its difficult. if u have been in my shoes, im sure u'll know what im talking abt.

as for the change in behaviour, my ex has changed a lot in the pass few weeks. i think he wants to reconcile, but i'll leave it as it is for some time...

 

[lovingyou]

Pat: It is better to remain status quo till you are realli sure of what you want.. No misleading and thus, less hurt will be caused in a way..

 

[sgbabydoll]

"if u have been in my shoes, im sure u'll know what im talking abt."

Happened to me before. Chose to forgive the ex and move on. Never thought of reconciliation as I felt we couldn't handle the stress of it.

 

[pinktweet]

Milo
Must really learn from you on how to resist 'outside' temptations .. haha ..

Yes, i agree, i choose my partner. Nobody forced me to choose him. He's my first and only guy i had ever been with .. and now he's my hubby .. He's practical, unromantic and unpassionate, but i still choose him cos he is stable, reliable and responsible. If i don grab him then, I scared i may be left on the shelf since we have dated each other for 7yrs before marriage. I believe all marriages have their own ups and downs .. Then temptations come at a time when my marriage is at a 'all-time-low' .. Boo boo me..

 

[miloice]

PinkTweet,
got things to learn from me meh?

Frankly, I could have fell. I was really tempted. I spoke with a few close friends. My lady friend was totally shocked with my inner revelations of my temptations. She was disappointed as she always believe that I was such a 'clean' guy. But, well, I'm just another guy with 2 heads to influence me.

It was my guy friend that woke me up. He was in the same shoes and was caught 2-timing before. I asked him for advise, I realize I could lose my gf over this stupid lust and greed to eat outside. After that, I decided to come clean with my gf. This is only possible with a woman that is not insecure about herself. And that worked. Revealing it to her, I no longer need to hide my 'monsters'. Her trust in me help motivate me to overcome the temptations.

If she have reacted negatively, I guess it would be difficult for our relationship to survive and strengthen.

 

[shirleypoise]

TS seemed to have her mind set on a reconcilation.. perhaps the reconcilation must happen b4 she knows for sure if he is still the guy that she wanna be with.

 

[miloice]

Pat, forgiveness is solely for yourself. It is to let go of whatever personal emotions, negativity and hatred you have. The goal is really to be happy again. Only when you let go of all these, you can see things objectively. Then, u will see no point holding on anger and resentments for someone. You will let to put behind the episode, be it reconcile or moving on separately.

You should only reconcile with someone when you see a future that you both want together. And You should be comfortable enough to place trust to rebuild together. If you cannot trust him enough, there is no way you an rebuild. Also, if there is no way for the both to share common views over even basic values and goals, then its very hard to rebuild the relationship. You guys will have big struggles fighting what simply so logical and instinctive to you. When u can't see eye to eye over these basic requirements, then you guys are not compatible and not ready for each other.

Maybe views of both of u could change, but until that change happen, no point forcing the change to happen unnaturally, you guys will suffer. It isn't a win-win relationship but a lose-win or lose-lose one.