I’m feeling lost and bothered by some BTO issues

Discussion in 'Matters Of The Heart' started by frostedpanels3, Mar 26, 2018.

  1. frostedpanels3

    frostedpanels3 New Member

    Hi there fellow readers, I have been lurking around this forum for months, and finally decided to revive my account that was created a while ago. Decided to post it here because I’m not sure who I can talk to.

    My SO and I are thinking of settling down and going ahead with the BTO application next year, after I have worked about a year plus. He is currently still studying and he will be graduating in 2019.

    My SO is the only child and only Son in his family. He have discussed the BTO application with his parents and talked to me about it.
    I have several issues here:
    1) His parents have stated that we must apply for a 5 room flat for our BTO. We wanted to apply either a 3/4 room flat at most. I went to HDB’s website to calculate the monthly instalment needed to pay, its way more than what I can afford monthly for the instalment :(

    2) His parents said the flat must be of walking distance from their current place, which is across the street or within the next few blocks. From what I know, there will not be any new BTOs coming up in that area. The next nearest is probably Punggol alr.
    His parents also mentioned that if we are unable to get a BTO in their area, we will have to get a 5 room resale flat.

    3) His parents wants to cohabit with us in future, this for the reason for getting a 5 room flat. They are thinking of renting their entire place out and moving in with us.
    Honestly, I am not keen for cohabiting because of potential conflicts that can arise and his mum is an anal kind of person. Because of very different living habits, I do not want to stay together (stayed over at his house before, so I sort of know how they’re like). We want privacy and no interference of parenting methods from future PILs.

    4) His parents have offered to help us pay for the flat if we’re getting a big house. How do I politely reject them, because I’m afraid that in future, it will feel as if I owe them something and might be use against us (like we have to listen to whatever they say and follow them), after all they’re SO’s parents.

    I’m currently staying in the east side, so I compromised in this aspect that he wants to apply for flats in the north east area. (And not somewhere in between the both of us - near to my parents and his parents).

    I voiced my concerns to SO, and told him that we should reach a common consensus to avoid potential conflicts with one another. But he just told me he doesn’t want to discuss about it anymore for the time being. I don’t want to make him feel torn between his parents and myself, at the same time, I don’t know how I should approach these issues and it has been lingering on my mind for quite a while. Please help :(

  2. ing1

    ing1 Member

    May I ask how old are u guys?
    frostedpanels3 likes this.
  3. triple

    triple New Member

    SO is only child. The parents and SO comes as a package. No way can u delink them.

    For SO to be his own man, he has to work min 2yrs to develop his own mindset independently of his parents.

    There are many more fish in the sea. Not saying bad abt SO, but your concerns are very real n high chance will come true.

    A happy relationship is very hard to manage, let alone parent's issues. Lets not dream of visting the moon for now.

    My suggestion.. go out meet more ppl. You are way too young to settle down, especially when it's not mr.brown as your father in law
  4. frostedpanels3

    frostedpanels3 New Member

    We are in our mid twenties.
  5. ing1

    ing1 Member

    just my tots.

    1) i applause for your thoughts of being financially independent from parents, esp when it comes to housing funding. i totally agree with you on this.

    2) it does not matter if your SO is the only child, eldest child, middle child or youngest child. Parents grow old and you will/may have to stay with them eventually, so staying together is unavoidable. just put yourself in your SO's shoes, does your SO feel the same (your parents have different living habits too) when it comes to staying together with your parents (if the need arise in future)? so what do you do then?

    3) let's assume if you are able to get the flat size that you are comfortable with, how is your SO going to contribute the BTO purchase when he is still studying? to be candid, i am not sure when do you have to start downpayment for BTO but you might want to add that into your consideration before applying. Even if you pay downpayment in 2 years time when your flat is ready, how much do you think he can save in 1 year's time (ASSUMING he can get a job immediately)? If his parents are helping with his share of downpayment (indirectly owning a share of the flat), do you mind?

    4) what is your gut feeling about your SO's thinking on getting a BTO 5 room or resale 5 room? does he agree with his parents or he shares the same thoughts as you? will he fight for/with you?

    5) since he is avoiding discussion with you, i think he does not have easy answers to your concerns. if i am you, i will hold on to the application first. Well, both of you are still young, what's the hurry? Gather more working experience and "gun powder" aka monies before getting into the "biggest debt" aka BTO in your life.

    again, these are just my tots only. :)
    frostedpanels3 likes this.
  6. frostedpanels3

    frostedpanels3 New Member

    Hi triple and ing1, thank you so much for taking the time to read and for replying.

    Yes, I do agree that we are still very young and there’s still a lot more roses to smell and life to experience before settling down.

    With regard to the down payment, right, I failed to consider the fact about the amount he will be able to save within that one year (considering that the waiting time for BTO have shortened from May 2018’s batch).
    I’m in a dilemma because I talked to my parents regarding the sharing of down payment and they told me it’s a no-go (potential strings attached maybe).

    My SO thinks a 5 room is way too big and don’t think that we will need such a big space, if needed we can still upgrade in future.

    I will see how it goes when it comes to the application period in 2019.

    I’m glad that I got some replies because it really helped me to look at things in a different perspective.
  7. CurtButTrue

    CurtButTrue New Member

    Better ask him to think hard, dig deep and talk about it soon. Problems will not go away by themselves.

    Give you another perspective.

    23% of your monthly income goes into your CPF-OA account.

    Assuming both your combined income is : $5,600 (2.8k x 2) after he grad.
    CPF contribution to OA : $1,288
    4-room BTO in Punggol based on Nov'17 BTO : $285,000
    Assume you take up a loan for $250,000
    Monthly repayment : $1,135 over 25 years
    Kinda cutting it close, unless you're expecting a substantial raise or your boy will kinda prosper in today's tough market

    Now consider the timeline from now to getting there, your boy's reluctance to face issues and seemingly lack of willingness to commit....

    Let's just say.. don't stop smelling the roses :|
    angelccl93 and frostedpanels3 like this.
  8. felirocious

    felirocious New Member

    Follow your heart. If you are not feeling comfortable or happy, then reconsider.

    You need a companion who can share the same thoughts and also weigh the differences for you. A man who can air your views as one couple together instead of a single individual when facing issues or problems or decision making.

    Commit a day out and spend the day together out for a lunch or high tea and find a comfortable place to discuss. Don’t discuss at home or via texts or calls.
    Do it face to face in a relax setting. Watch body behaviour
    frostedpanels3 likes this.
  9. miloice

    miloice Well-Known Member

    hi, I think many of the folks already brought up very impt points that you should consider in your relationship with your fiance.

    I would like to bring up abt another thing altogether. You are buying an HDB. People do not realise how impt this is.

    Your BTO flat is only the first apartment that you will be getting. What's impt is to pay off your CPF invested and accurred interest. Most of us think, its money we cannot touch anyway, don't bother. Well.... there is a huge downsize from using our CPF. Its a system to make first housing affordable but at the same time, entrap your CPF funds.

    Unlike bank loans, the moment we pay off in full, the interest stops. When we take a loan with HDB, we are charged an interest, we mistakenly think that is the part to worry, the moment its fully settled with our CPF, the interest stops. Our CPF are supposed to grow at 2.5%, as long as your CPF is invested in your property, it is still going to appreciate at that value except, the value is charged back to your property.

    Say you took a HDB loan of 75k and used 75k of your OA, by default, it will charge the maximum possible from your CPF contribution for the instalment, you have login to your CPF account to reduce the CPF deduction to 0 if you do not want to further touch your CPF. In around 15 years, your CPF invested + interest will likely be around 250k. So, your HDB could be bought at 150k and sold at 300k, actual cash profits you will get will only become 50k. If market is weak when you sell, you are obliged to payback the shortfall if you are under 55 yrs old. This is the reason why many Singaporeans are shocked to realised their CPF is empty despite have no loans, having their CPF fully paid for the HDB for 20 to 30 yrs. The accured interest plus the depreciation of mature HDB leasehold is double whampy. When they sell, it will be at a lose and eat into their CPF account anyway, and losing a place to stay. Don't keep cash in your bank, property agents will tell you to buy 2 condo and use one to pay the other. Its all crazy BS assuming rental market is going to be rosy.

    Buying your HDB is an impt step. Choose one that is with strong rental potential. This will be your lifetime instrument to upgrade. Focus to pay off the HDB and all CPF. When you invest in your next property, there will be ABSD of 7%. If your HDB promixity is perfect, people will rent it. It should be close to public transport and most importantly, to offices or factories with lots of FT. The IRAS ABSD isn't going to make up your yield from renting out your HDB. Private apartments are now easily in the range of 1.2 to 1.4k psf for most secondary market freeholds. Prime areas are well over 2k. If you look at the new developments, they are all at the 1.5-1.8 range now. Don't fall into the trap of property agents, your HDB is going to be your strongest asset as long as you clear your CPF and let it grow independently. Choose your HDB as carefully as you choose your partner.
    angelccl93 and frostedpanels3 like this.
  10. GreatScotch

    GreatScotch Member

    Actually a man should have the strength to walk out of his parents and start a new family. Your in laws can see the financial potential of renting their old flat at the expense of their son's sense of responsibility. Using parent's money for a flat in part or whole shows he is not ready to be a man capable of a family yet.

    Your bf needs to have his own thinking. And you being his wife needs to support him.
    angelccl93 and frostedpanels3 like this.
  11. 4sgbrides

    4sgbrides New Member

    Hello! You are in a very similar position as me. My SO is the only son (and only child) too, and his parents had an expectation of moving in with us. We wanted to get a resale in the first place, and needed their help as we were younger (that was 4 years ago) and did not have enough savings. They imposed the same conditions (walking distance.. must be HUGE etc).

    We didn't go ahead with the resale as we had a huge argument because of this. I told him that if he wishes our marriage to last, his parents cannot stay with us. There WILL be conflicts, and such conflicts WILL lead to me leaving him and the marriage. And if that's the case, might as well don't marry in the first place. I have my own character which not many "elders" can accept. I am not going to do housework / wash laundry / cook dinner etc. He accepted that. Our house is going to be ready this year. I have reminded him that he is NOT ALLOWED to give a set of keys to his parents. Our house = our rules. They have their own house to set their own stupid rules.

    Actually, it all depends on how the parents' characters are. My mom treats my SO like her own son (wash + iron his clothes.. even his underwear... he has my house keys... my mom questions why he's not "home" on weekends as he usually stays over...). Whereas his mom hates me to the core cause I'm not the typical docile DIL she expects. We've been together for 6 years, and I'm not allowed in his house. I've been to his place 3x over the last 6 years.

    His parents need to learn to let him go.
    frostedpanels3 and miloice like this.
  12. miloice

    miloice Well-Known Member

    His family is part of him. Kudos for you to put your foot on what happens. However, do consider his difficulties torn between the 2.
  13. mirrorcelcius

    mirrorcelcius Member

    I think the world works just fine, it is what you want is the problem.
  14. 4sgbrides

    4sgbrides New Member

    Ya I know he's torn in between. But they are not his biological parents and they adopted him when they were nearing 50 (and very low income family) so they probably thought of him as a security to their old age.

    They were selfish to start with. I dont see why I need to be generous.

  15. miloice

    miloice Well-Known Member

    Not asking you to be generous. Rather, there is a need to understand your partner's priorities as well. If he is supportive to align with you, there isn't any issue. However, if he do want to care for his folks and you are blocking him, then, there is a conflict. I do not know your context. Something you guys manage. Every family differs. Generally speaking, burning bridges should be the last resort.
    newproject likes this.
  16. frostedpanels3

    frostedpanels3 New Member

    Hello miloice, thank you for offering your perspective on how important buying a HDB is, especially when it is such a huge investment. Will reconsider matters again.
    miloice likes this.
  17. frostedpanels3

    frostedpanels3 New Member

    I’m unable to reply to some of the posts due to it being a spam content.

    Hmmm and whenever I’m over at his house, I tend to drop some strands of hair. But before I leave, I’ll always try my best to pick all of them up into the bin before going off. Even if I’m in the toilet and I notice some strands, I’ll pick them up and flush them down the toilet.

    And of course there are days that I missed picking up some of them, resulting in some loose strands on the floor.

    Bf’s parents are extremely particular about my strands of hair on the floor. They go like “why every where so much hair? In the bedroom, in the living room, in the kitchen, in the toilet? So much hair, she cannot see meh?” (It’s not a furball of hair tho). I would say his mum is VERY VERY VERY OCD, to the point whereby she cannot tolerate even a tiny speck of dust, or dirt etc any where in the house. Not to mention, strands of hair.

    I feel bad (guilty in a way) that I left something for his mum to clean, should I be bringing a roll of duct tape/scotch tape with me whenever I’m over at his place to get rid of all the hair evidence?

    Sigh this is one of the reasons that I’m not keen in living tgt in future. Like what 4sgbrides have mentioned, their house their rules which I understand.
    So I rather have my own house in future, then I wouldn’t need to worry about dropping hair and getting the passive aggressiveness from his parents. :(

    Edit: talked to bf about it, he asked me to pick them up and clean the place before I leave the house.
    miloice likes this.
  18. frostedpanels3

    frostedpanels3 New Member

    Thank you for sharing your plight with me 4sgbride. I’m really glad to hear from someone who is on the same boat as me. I applaud you for having your own stand in situations like this.

    Yes, there will be conflicts on my side too and I think it will end up nasty too, like what you have mentioned.

    May I ask, for the choosing for flat location, did you and your SO come to an agreement to choose a flat that is near your parents and his parents? What I meant is like, in between, not too far/near from his parents and your parents. Or did you have to choose a flat that is NEAR his parents?
  19. miloice

    miloice Well-Known Member

    Level of scrutiny and habits at home differs from person to person. If his mum is housewife, there will be a higher chance that she will be particular such minor details. However, some men are also very OCD. My tolerance level of mess is very high and found myself a wife that is not particular about it. She was brought up with helpers at home, so never have habit of cleaning. Since we send back the helper after MIL moved back to her hometown to be cared for by my wife's siblings, we need to just adjust our tolerance level further. Compatibility over these are important with people that you will live with. My MIL was a housewife all her life, when she was living with us, she was nagging non stop. Particular abt everything, how the helper did everything.

    We are now happily living in a messy place. lol
    Our kids are just as messy, toys are in every corner of our place. I'm the only one doing the general cleaning, washing the toilets, laundry washing and ironing, vaccuming and mopping.

    For someone so particular about dust and hair, just get a good vacuum cleaner for her. LOL
  20. 4sgbrides

    4sgbrides New Member

    Unfortunately we HAD to choose a place damn near their house (and super far from my own house) . And I think we chose wrongly. Cause they are old and sick and unable to take care of our future kids. So in the end it's still my parents who will be taking care of the kids. Not to mention they live central so our BTO is damn expensive (can easily get 2 btos near my house at the same price)

    Just generally damn pissed with them making my life hell.

  21. Infernolord

    Infernolord Active Member

    I am the only son in my family. This is just my personal view.

    I think you shld grow up and try to work it out with his family. Like what other said, SO and his family comes as a package.. Eventually his parent have to stay with you guy whether you like it or not.
    What you mentioned here, i do not see as a issue with him or his family but your own personal issues that you just cant stay with his family. What ever reasons you stated here, i feel you are just being selfish.
    Point 4 - Is this great that at least his parent offer to help to get a bigger house, solve your point 1 issue. This also show that his parent is trying to be understanding and work it out.
    Point 3 - Can always tell his parent that you guys need some private time for the first few years to do family planning. I am pretty sure they are ok.

    Put it another round, if your SO is one that suit all your needs. Ignore his parents, walk out of them. Let them grow old and visit them once awhile. Are you sure you wan to marry him??

    To be blunt, if I am your SO. If my parent is unreasonale while staying together, i will tell them off even they are my parent. If you do not like my parent, i will leave you. Without them,, there is no me. Do you understand?
    So let your SO be the man he shld be. A guy shloud manage his family, and judge who is reasonale or not.
    newproject likes this.
  22. 4sgbrides

    4sgbrides New Member

    I don't agree with this. It is TS's choice how she wishes to lead her life and not be dictated by anyone else. I do not think she should sacrifice her life just because his parents want to do something their way without considering her inputs, esp when they have their own flat to stay in. Little arguments will build up which might cost them to divorce eventually.

    TS and her SO can always visit the family weekly (or everyday if they wish). Key is not to stay together. I wish you good luck when you have a wife, and hopefully your parents are understanding and independent.

    angelccl93 and miloice like this.
  23. miloice

    miloice Well-Known Member

    My take..... while we should be supportive towards our family .... this is only one aspect. The key is balance. We can only support within our means. This level differs for every individual. At the end of the day, be honest with yourself and your conscience. Is this what you and your spouse want or its only your own wish imposed on your partner.
  24. Infernolord

    Infernolord Active Member

    This is why divorce is so common. Love suppose to be selfless and sacrifices..
    True that TS and SO visit his family often. Then again only son, eventually his parent need him. U expect son to walk out of his family for his TS, how does this reflect on SO. How are you going to educate your kid by setting such example.

    And no thanks, i aldy have a wife. Gd luck with your own life.
    "And I think we chose wrongly. Cause they are old and sick and unable to take care of our future kids.." I wonder how your hubby feel when u said such things.. It not his parent responsibility to take care of your kids.
    arsenal_84 and newproject like this.
  25. newproject

    newproject Active Member

    I'm sorry but your disdain for your SO parents is so evident. This isn't going to bode well for your relationship.

    Does it matter if they adopted him when they were 50? They still raised him.

    I don't know what you are both going to do in terms of BTO but if you don't try to change your attitude towards his parents , you will be eventually forcing your SO to choose between you and his parents.

    If you truly love your SO, you should try to not put him in such a position.
  26. arsenal_84

    arsenal_84 Member

    adopted parents, wow no wonder the son has a stronger sense of responsibility.
    anyway if TS can't stand her bf parents then maybe is better to cut the losses soon, beside you guys are only mid 20s, plenty of time to meet other partners.
    marriage is a package thing, whether you like it or not, sometimes is not that easy to draw a line.
    newproject likes this.
  27. xinj

    xinj New Member

    Do not let them move in to stay with you. In future, yes you may look after a very old/less mobile parent/in-law, but this should not happen in your case, right after you guys get married. Meaning to say, the parents should not immediately try to move in right after a young couple just got married. They need to give the young couple (yourself n hb/hb to be) some personal space first. Otherwise, you can be sure the parents are going to be breathing down your neck all the time. They should only move in much later, after you've had several years of having your own personal space as husband and wife.

    Do not let them arm-wrestle you or emotionally manipulate you. All the tension and conflict, if not properly resolved, and if your BF/HB to be doesn't know how to manage and handle and be the mediator, all the feelings will be sour and over time, you will quarrel more or eventually stop talking to each other as husband and wife, you'll have a lot of bitterness and resentment, and eventually you may leave the marriage. Don't let them stay with you. Especially if you want to have kids, you should only have kids when you're on good terms with parents/in-laws, or do not let them interfere.

    They need to let him have his own personal space to build his family too. It is not right of them to immediately want to plan to rent out their entire flat and come and conveniently bunk in with the both of you. Sorry, this is modern day Singapore, not a kampung anymore. Your HB can support them financially/give allowance and you both visit them maybe every weekend, but do not let them stay with you, at least not immediately upon your marriage.
    I don't understand why some parents cannot let their son go, and start their own family. And it seems a lot of MIL are very against their DIL. Then they want their son to be married or not married? If some MILs are always so jealous of another woman in the family, (a woman who is to marry their son), then they might as well don't even let their son get married at all.

    Do not let them move in. And don't let them guilt-trip you. I would not want such nightmarish parents-in-law. They are only thinking about themselves, not you and their son. If it were me, I would be very frustrated and upset too. I am marrying my SO, I am not marrying his parents. Sorry to say, they're not around forever. I value my life and my personal life and personal space with my SO. There needs to be some healthy physical space and distance.

    I advise against staying near your in-laws. Otherwise you can expect that every other day or every few days, they're going to just pop by whenever they want to, unannounced, and expect you to open the door and let them in, or they'll just come in themselves and make themselves right at home. Or they will insist/mandate that you both go and see them every few days too, they will conveniently say 'since you both stay so near us, walking distance, so hard to walk to our house is it??'. They will use the geographical proximity and emotionally control you both.

    So therefore, you should live in an area that is not THAT close to them. You need some personal and physical space.
    frostedpanels3 likes this.
  28. newproject

    newproject Active Member

    I was generally alright with the comment about wanting to live alone untìl i saw this part.

    There is nothing wrong living near to parents, heck it is even encouraged by the government with financial grants. There are also many non monetary advantages.

    The fact that you have to resort to distance is troubling. You might as well move overseas if you are so scared.

    As 2 married adults (who presumably have united views) you should be mature enough to set proper boundaries.

    The other possibility is the husband and wife disagree about how much parents should be involved . Then this should be resolved not trying to run away to avoid the issue.

    Honestly i dont know why so many married woman in SG act like mother in laws are their enemy.

    That's said my wife has a great relationship with my mum. Heck my mum likes to take her side!

    My sister in law lives 5 to 10 min away from my mum and my mum helps to care for her kids.

    And no my mum doesn't drop in unless invited to their house even though they gave her keys.
  29. xinj

    xinj New Member

    Did you not read the Original Poster's thread topic describing her parents-in-law?

    Yes, living close to your parents/in-laws is okay, provided you are all on good terms with each other. But if I have my own parents or in-laws that can be nasty, then no, I do not want to live near them. If you've parents/in-laws who all get along with you, then yes, good for you. But you can be sure there are other people in SG who have one or two parents/in-laws who can be difficult to deal with. Think emotional blackmail and manipulation, passive-aggressiveness, etc etc. I would rather not live with or live too near all that kind of characters. It is not good for my mental and emotional health either. There's only so much you can do. You cannot force other people to change their character too. The only thing you can do is just keep a distance, and ensure boundaries are not crossed. Then again, this is the difficult part. What if it's not the daughters-in-law who find their MIL is their enemy, what if it's sometimes the MILs that keep breathing down the necks of their DILs? There are really some MILs from hell, who make life difficult for their DILs too.

    I suppose you're a guy and you only see things from one side, yes of course you do not want your spouse to be on bad terms with your parents. But what about other families out there? Lots of guys are stuck in-between their parents and their spouse. For those of them that cannot manage and handle the conflict between both parties, that is how tension and conflicts rise. Good for you that you're on good terms on both sides. But what will you do if your mother/father is always nagging or giving your spouse hell? So are you going to go against your parents, or you let your wife suffer? Every family is different. Count yourself lucky you are not in such a complicated situation like some others out there are in. There are many cases there daughters-in-law have to tahan all the shit the in-laws give to them. Is this fair to us womenfolk? There are guys who just don't do anything to solve the situation between their parents and their spouse. The problems escalate when the young kids come along too.

    FYI, at this moment, my parents and my future in-laws are fine. But if I ever did have one or two of them who are toxic characters, then no, I would not want to live near them. At this moment, both sets of parents are fine for me. I'm just saying that if they happened to be the toxic sort, then nope, I'm not going to stay near them.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  30. newproject

    newproject Active Member

    Let me share with you my experience. When we first got married, i told my wife let's go for a resale but it was she that asked ifit was ok to stay at my parents for a while so we could take our time to look.

    Everyone both her friends and mine both girls AND guys both married and unmarried told me was a bad idea.

    It shook her resolve for a while, some filled her head with horror stories, even single ones who didnt have a bf knew they would never stay with their future mother in laws because of such stories

    Isnt that seeing the MIL (in this case an imaginary one) as an enemy?

    I had to tell her it will be fine knowing both of them and if it came down to it i would handle it.

    Dont be sexist. It is not just woman folk who suffer if not managed properly. Guys are in between too.

    That's the key issue you dont trust your man can handle it so you run away to avoid the problem.

    And there are unreasonable DILs who think just because parents adopted the son it doesn't count or something.

    Either way, running away is the wrong answer. But thats so Singaporean. If my mum is unreasonable i will stand up to her.

    Same if the wife is unreasonable . One of my greatest regrets is not standing up to my ex who bullied my mum and make her so heart broken.

    So dont make out all females to be victims lah.

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