Honeymoon to europe

von

New Member
hi raymond...

i dun tink so lo, coz the swiss fondue i had was @ interlaken and recommended by the locals there, the restaurant were crowded,

i tink its a personal taste thing la, the cheese is v aromatic with the blend of white wine in it, but its juz wasnt fanastic.

or maybe i am juz someone not easily impress by things or food , coz i usually have pretty hi ecpectation... (fussy).. keke
 


makino

New Member
Raymond,
Which shop did you patronise in Interlaken? We tried a local shop (a lot of locals and tourists) and the boss played around with the guests with music and dance. He even demo how to eat the fondue properly. I've also tried another one in Lucerne, and just didn't like it. Costed me 80 francs at that time.

Agree with dia... not everyone can take the cheese flavour. For me, I can't take the taste of wine in it. (I don't like alchoholic chocs too)
 

rtan

New Member
Hi Tsukushi,

Can't remember the name of the restaurant, but don't think it's the one you went to; we were the only tourists there because it is out of the way. It was like a locals-only hangout; one table had elderly people playing cards. There was no music and no dancing; we went for lunch.

Cheese and wine take getting used to; it is not in our normal asian diet so it's normal that we don't like it initially. French people complain that in Singapore there's too much rice. C'est la vie.
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I think fondue is not the best way to start appreciating cheese. Better to start with some mild dutch cheese like Gouda. Those Kraft singles cheeses are so standard and is not representive of the delicious cheeses you can get in France, Europe in general, or even Australia. There's more to cheeses than single-sliced individually plastic-wrapped cheeses. President's cheese are a good place to start.

Wine (and probably cheese too) is something that takes a while to be appreciated; initially we found the taste of wine too strong and too bitter, but after drinking it more and more you get to like it and start to avoid the cheapo wines! You may wish to try some wine appreciation classes. Pity that cheap wine in SG is so expensive (and expensive wine in SG is cheap relative to other countries). This is due to the fixed tax structure.

BTW I must say that I do not hate Chinese food; I think Chinese food is great and will always have a place in my culinary heart. I just think that we should perhaps be a bit more adventurous and not give up on something just because we hate it and are not used to it at the first taste; perseverance pays off.
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makino

New Member
Raymond,
Yup like I mentioned earlier, cheese fondue is an acquired taste. But however, I do like the chocolate fondue and even thought of buying some choc mixes back from Swiss.

I do drink a bit of wine and ironically we have a small collection at home. (Hubby likes to drink!) Anyway, maybe have to try wine appreciation classes..lol I remember bringing back a bottle of Italian wine years bought from a kiosk. Supposed to be really good and cheap, but never got the chance to taste it as my mom gave it to someone else.

Btw, you sound like a food connoisseur! hehe... must call you Dr Tan now.

Oh btw, my tour guide mentioned that some European food taste more saltish than our normal sg food, because they need to preserve the food longer. Dunno how true that is..
 

rtan

New Member
Hi Tsukushi,

Yes the chocolate in Switzerland is fantastic; we bought some nutella-like concoction from Interlaken and it is fantastic. Beats nutella hands down.
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No please I'm not Dr. Tan, just Raymond will do. I am hardly a food connoisseur; just had the good fortune to spend four years growing up in Holland (no not Holland Road) so have been exposed to different food and cultures in Western Europe. Really opened up my eyes, not just to food, but different ways of living life and all that.
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I hope you have a wine fridge to keep the wine at home for your hubby; wine goes bad quickly if kept in Singapore's hot temperature (turns vinegarish); if kept in fridge, it is unfair to the wine and will not age properly. The best place I've found to buy wine in SG (good range and good deals) is Carrefour at Suntec City; if you need to surprise your hubby with a good yet reasonably priced bottle of wine, do feel free to PM me.
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For e.g., right now Carrefour Suntec is selling a Jacob's Creek Reserve Shiraz 2002 for only SGD 29.80 (normal price SGD 38.00 if you can even find it!). It's a full-bodied wine that can still be aged further and is so much better than the normal Traditional Range that you find in all supermarkets. The 2003 is also available but you can find the 2002 if you search among the bottles; it is found in two different shelves.

http://www.jacobscreek.com/apps/wine/Wine.php?WineID=19&RangeID=2&WineCountryID=&VintageYear=2002

For wines, avoid NTUC like the plague (poor selection, bad storage conditions, most expensive), and for Cold Storage go only for those wines that are heavily discounted, those are the only reasonably-priced wines there (e.g. SGD 35 slashed down to SGD 25 or thereabouts).

Please don't call me a wine connoiseur; I am merely an amateur who has a great interest in wines. That's the meaning of amateur; one who has an interest or love for something.

Oh I think CHF 80 for a cheese fondue is a little on the pricey side; our great cheese fondue only cost about CHF 25 in Interlaken.
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Yes European food is more saltish probably due to the days prior to refrigeration, salt was the main means of preserving food. Now with refrigeration, most European food is still too saltish for our liking. But French food is quite ok, and good French (and any high-class European food) is not saltish because they no longer rely on salt, but the natural flavours of the food and spices they use to bring out the best out of the food; salt just kills everything (except a good duck confit.
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juv

New Member
Hello Tsukushi and Raymond,

Tsukushi...can share which part of interlaken is the good cheese fondue found? Will be travelling there in dec and would love to try
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Raymond, i will be going F&E for my honeymoon to Zurich and Paris. Am wondering if u have any idea how much the rail will cost from ZRH to Paris? Thanks!
 

rtan

New Member
Hi Juv,

Sorry I have not taken the train in the last couple of years in Europe. Have only driven around on our own.

If I can find the Lonely Planet guide to Switzerland, I'll put up the restaurant where we had the genuine swiss specialities tomorrow.
 

makino

New Member
Hi Raymond,

That's a lot of info on wine. I guess we need to finish up the wine quickly now
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Don't normally know which year is good and which year is bad, so we randomly pick most of the time. And mostly get from DFS..hehe. Oh any recommendation from DFS?

The 80F fondue included a folk dance show, I guess some money went to the tour guide too.
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Pls don't talk about French food any more... starting to drool at the mention of it :p~~~~

Juv,
Think you asked the wrong person. Raymond is the one who has had nice fondue in Swiss. I didn't like the ones I tried. The one I patronised in Interlaken is located very near to the train station in the town that services to other parts of Europe (but I don't know if there are more than 1 train station). But if you're looking for the folk dance show, that one is in Lucern.

Oh if you're in Interlaken, you can consider a 1 day trip to other parts of Europe like Milan. Not that far..
 

rtan

New Member
Hi Juv,

Ah sorry forgot to check out the Interlaken restaurant, will do so tomorrow.

Hi Tsukushi,

To check out which year is good for wine, you can check (for e.g.):

http://www.erobertparker.com/info/vintagechart1.asp

Lower-end Australian wines are almost identical from year to year. That is because they make wines that people like to drink; so they gear their wines towards fruit-forward and easy-to-drink wines that generally don't keep long. So the year does not really matter.

DFS is not really that cheap because the wines have to travel all the way to SG. The best place to buy wines are in the countries that produce them. But if you're in SG, besides DFS, you can check out Carrefour Suntec. They have the widest range and some wines are quite well priced (cheap!).

So that we keep on track in this thread; why do the fries that come with genuine French duck confit taste so good? Sometimes they cook it in duck fat.
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makino

New Member
Well, if pass by Changi airport of cos try to grab something from DFS..hehe

Came across foie gras in France but never had the courage to try...heard that the taste is also acquired?
 

rtan

New Member
Hi Tsukushi,

Hehe... but I've seen things (a champagne) in DFS that are cheaper in some places in Singapore even after all the taxes. I beleve it was Veuve Clicquot champagne. It was something like SGD 80+ in DFS, when I could get it for SGD 70 at a wine shop. Go figure.
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Foie gras tastes like pig's liver or chicken liver, only that it is finer and richer. You can get it in Singapore too, some places have it at quite reasonable prices.
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touraco

New Member
raymond
i noticed u grad from com sci the same year as me except u went on to do hons. so i might have seen u before. the name does sound familiar.
 

rtan

New Member
Hi touraco,

Oh my unix userid was tanchoo1. Couldn't find your info anywhere.
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Hi Tsukushi,

If you want to try what Foie Gras tastes like without having to break your piggy bank
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, you may wish to consider Tea Cosy at Plaza Singapura Level 5. They sell a bite-sized portion (really bite-sized!) for under $10, or a foie gras main course for about $25 if I remember correctly.
 

rtan

New Member
Hi Juv,

Ok I managed to dig out the info on the restaurant in Interlaken that had the good swiss cheese fondue.

The restaurant is part of the hotel Gasthof Hirschen, which has a website (in German):

http://www.hirschen-interlaken.ch/

The street address is:

Hauptstrasse 11, Interlaken 3800

The map (marked by a red dot) is (from mapblast.com):

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4870/hirschenjq0.gif

If my meagre German does not fail me, it looks like it is closed on Mondays.

You can see part of the menu here:

http://www.hirschen-interlaken.ch/Speisekarte.htm

The cheese fondue is CHF 23.50.

This is the view of the interior of the restaurant:

http://www.hirschen-interlaken.ch/01.jpg

We sat on the second table from the right. Nice place. Friendly homely atmosphere as it is a typical Swiss family-run hotel and restaurant. Expect smokers though.
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Besides the cheese fondue which my wife had, I had the meat loaf which was also very nice.
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juv

New Member
Thanks for the info Raymond....

Tsukushi, u mentioned a one day trip to milan..i'm quite keen but jsut wondering if it is worthwhile to go there for just one day?
 

rtan

New Member
Hi touraco,

Yes it is. And who are you?
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We just got married in June this year and went to Switzerland, Italy, and France for our honeymoon. It was great to be able to drive around on our own, to go on the road less travelled.
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touraco

New Member
Hi raymond
i am very low key in Uni so i dun think you will know me. i did use the touraco before in Uni.

that's nice. i got married last apr and went to london, paris, italy and switzerland.

we didn't drive over there but took the public transport and its quite an experience. we almost got pickpocketed on a bus in italy.
 

rtan

New Member
Hi touraco,

So which destination did you enjoy the most?

Ah... pickpockets... how did it happen? Did you or your hubby use a neck pouch? The only safe place is a neck pouch. Even a waist pouch is not safe! And pockets are useless, even those with a button or a zip.

Our friend almost got her handphone stolen from her bag handphone pouch while queuing up in Macs in Paris. Needless to say that wasn't the smartest place to put a handphone. These people are professionals, but all it takes is simple and sensible precautions to outwit them, and they won't even bother to target you but to go for easier targets.
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They only target suaku tourists.
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touraco

New Member
hi raymond
both of us love italy the most as we are into ancient architecture kind of stuff.

which place did you both enjoy the most?

har..for the pickpockets. my hubby already noticed these 2 men acting strange while we were waiting for a bus and then when we boarded the bus, this guy purposely knock into my hubby and hubby felt someone nudging on his pouch and he was wearing a neck pouch. so hubby quickly held on to his pouch and looked at the guy and both of them quickly alighted the bus.

we saw a pickpocket trying to act "blur" after he was discovered in a paris market.
 

rtan

New Member
Hi touraco,

Good thing that your husband was alert.
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That always helps.
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Your husband wore the neck pouch outside? If the neck pouch (especially for guys) is worn inside the T-shirt next to his body, there is no way they will even attempt to pick it off you. They can't move his neck pouch without him feeling it. Unless they have some skill I don't know of...

After a while you realise the tactics these pickpockets use are very standard and it is very easy to outfox them.
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Oh it's nice that both of you are into ancient architecture and all that. Can't find much of that in SG.
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We enjoyed France the most overall; fantastic food, great wines, nice scenery, wonderful culture and history. The language and people take a bit of getting used to but no problems pour moi.
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Switzerland and Italy are nice in their own ways too. The Swiss Alps, and the Italian architecture.
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A perfect day would start with a Swiss breakfast, followed by an Italian lunch (with Prosecco or a Rose wine), and end with a French dinner (Champagne of course!).
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makino

New Member
Raymond,
For how much does foie gras sell in France?

Juv,
Not sure whether it's worthwhile. This itinerary was recommended by our guide, but we didn't have that much time in Interlaken to go to Milan.
 

touraco

New Member
hi raymond
he wore the neckpouch inside his shirt and he even had his coat on as well...guess his pouch is protruding, that's why it caught the eye of the pickpockets.

love the italian architecture...amazed at their craftsmanship of fountains and buildings....loved the language (although there is a certain degree of miscomm sometimes)...
 

rtan

New Member
Hi touraco,

Oh heh.... the neck pouch we had was skin colour so it is not so visible when worn inside. Then if it is inside his T-shirt and his T-shirt is tucked into his jeans, there is nothing they can do.
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But really good to be alert!

Yes imagine if you had your wedding photoshoot in Italy... AHS (anyhow shoot) will work.
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tesoro

New Member
Hi Raymond
I hope to get some tips from you since u r a seasoned travellor. I am planning for my honeymoon trip next year , nov (Haha...i m a bit kiasu here) but i cannot decide where to go
I m more for europe..i m thinking of amsterdam or spain (barcelona, madrid) and we are planning to stay in those hostels which are a lot cheaper than hotels. In your opinion, which place will have more to offer (in terms of sight seeing)? I m definitely backpacker style and i go for off the beaten track kinda tour.
many thanks in advance
 

spacebar

New Member
Hi tesoro,

I backpacked europe before, and was on shoestring budget too.
visited many cities, and if u asked me which are the cities that I will go again..

i would probably say venice, florence, barcelona...

amsterdam is slightly different from the rest of the western europe, maybe its slightly up north..so i felt it has some scandinavian feel to it.
but i would probably give it a miss the next time..
maybe i will try prague..

if you are under a certain age, you can try to stay at the international youth hostel which I find it very interesting..
I met some fellow backpackers in a certain city...and after 1-2 weeks, met them again at another city somewhere....so some backpackers will stick to International Youth Hostel throughout the trip.
 

spacebar

New Member
Oh, missed the part that you are going on a honeymoon...
i think some international youth hostels in europe do not provide double rooms..

we are planning our honeymoon to europe too..and most likely in april.
when is yours? and we are the backpacking honeymooners too..
so whom ever goes earlier..must share tips yah!!
 

rtan

New Member
Dear Tesoro,

Sorry I am not that seasoned; I haven't been to Barcelona or Prague, and it's been over 20 years since I've been in Florence or Rome? But Europe is like a second home to me and I am completely comfortable with the culture and food there, since I spent four years growing up in Den Haag (Google for it.
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I am only familiar with France actually, as we've been there three times in the last three years. We plan to go there again in May 2008, so that will make it four out of four. I have not had any experience with backpacking though so Truff and others could give you more tips on that.

What's your budget like?

I honestly think that honeymooners should try to stay in slightly less budgety accommodation, if you know what I mean. Your first honeymoon is only once in a lifetime.
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tesoro

New Member
hey truff, thanks for the valuable info.
I am only going in end nov. however, it will be winter so that's why i am not sure whether it will be a good time to go. I have been to italy before too ;tuscany, milan and dolomities. italy is beautiful. venice and florence are definitely on my must-go list.

my question is from italy to barcelona, is it better to take train or fly there?

we can afford to spend 1 mth in europe but the idea is to keep it below 4k per pax (including airfare) ....do you think it's possible?
 

rtan

New Member
Hi Tesoro,

If you're going in end November, since it's the start of winter, you may wish to restrict yourself to areas near the Mediterranean Sea which have milder climates. E.g. Spain, Italy, Provence / Cote D'Azur in France.

Venice is fine in November, at least you don't get the crowds. We were there in July 2006 and it was far too full of tourists to be romantic. We did not enjoy it as much as we would like. The advantage of going in November is that it is far less crowded. Of course do be prepared for colder weather, cloudy days, and shorter daylight hours.

It's possible to keep it below 4k per person, but Italy is honestly rather expensive so I guess going hostels may be your only option. France is noticeably cheaper. In fact, accommodation in Venice is comparable to that of Switzerland!

One month is a lot of time. You could do what Midas did; stay in a castle for one week in Tuscany or something like that. Or one week in a cottage in Provence or Cote D'Azur. It would be lovely, and it is quite cheap also, compared to daily accommodation. Take note that it is like a self-catering apartment.
 

tesoro

New Member
Hi all
I have doing some reading up on my own these few days. We have kinda decided to go Spain, for 20 days and contemplating to have a stopver at Amsterdam for a few days before coming back to Singapore. I have checked some places in Spain. They do have holiday lettings available and they are so much cheaper as compared to hotels. Most importantly, i feel that we can be with the locals.
Has anyone been been to Spain?
any advice to offer? thanks
 

ni_côle

New Member
Hi,

Just want to share my experience of my honeymoon, which just ended last week.
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My hubby & I joined SA on their 12 Days Italy/Switzerland/Paris package. We didn't want to spend too much time on planning on the route & where to go. We prefered a more hazzle-free holiday, so decided to join package tour.

I must say it was a right decision to make. Although it's a bit rush, not very much time to shop, but definitely a very enjoyable experience.

The tour leader, Sam Thum from Singapore, is really a nice guy. He's very knowledgable about world history & very familar with Europe. He gave us quite a lot of tips on Europe. He did try his best to make sure he took care most of the tour members.

Italy is a very beautiful place. Although it may not be the safest place in Europe, but it's definitely the country with most historical places of interest in Europe. The churches, streets, stories & etc in Italy are lovely. Italy is definitely a nice place to visit.

Switzerland is also lovely, very different from Italy. The roads & streets are clean (without the sight of rubbish bins), the air are fresh throughout the day, the people are friendly, willing to stop & help you, the scenery is like a paradise. The bad thing about Switzerland is "expensive". :Þ

A normal set meal at MacDonald costs CHF 12, which is around SGD 16. A plate of fried rice at a simple Chinese restaurant is CHF 28, about SGD 37. So travelling in Swiss is rather "pocket-burning". :Þ

As for Paris, it's the worst place I had ever been to. My hubby & I seldom go for holidays and the furthest that I went is Australia, so quite 'sua gu'. But really don't like the French.

Although Paris is very beautiful, especially at night, but I can't stand the snobbish attitude that the French has. I don't like the 2nd class treatment given when I'm there to spend & 'contribute' to their economy. I don't see how higher class they are from the rest of us and why I should accept those snobbish & rude attitude & treatments from them.

The worst thing about Paris is their traffic in the City. I can't never believe my eyes when I saw the traffic situation of Paris the same as Indoesia's Medan, where I visited around 8 years ago. No lane markings, cars just anyhow cross & cut one another lanes, jams because of no proper traffic etiquettes & rules.

I will recommend couples to go to Europe for honeymoon, as I enjoyed mine too. :Þ
 

rtan

New Member
Dear Nicole,

I'm glad you enjoyed your honeymoon to Europe. Yes indeed both Switzerland and Italy are very nice in their own way. Of course you do know that the reason for the high prices in Switzerland is because of arguably the world's highest standards of living and thus one of the highest salaries in the world of the Swiss. It's like Malaysians coming to Singapore and finding everything expensive.

My wife and I have been to France three times in the last three years, and each time, we have thoroughly enjoyed our stay. The French people are among the most misunderstood people in the world. Now, I must admit, there is definitely a higher proportion of snobbish people in Paris compared to outside of Paris. Once you leave Paris and go to any other town or village in France, the people are decidedly nicer. I am not making excuses for why the people are snobbish, but in an cultural misunderstandings, it helps if we know a bit more about their background and their side of the story.

The French are extremely proud of their language, and one of the things they expect (unfairly or not) is that tourists and visitors to their country at least do try to speak a little French. So if we walk into a shop or restaurant and start speaking in English, do expect to get ignored. On the other hand, if they can see that you are making your best effort to learn and to speak a few phrases, they will generally chip in to help you and will usually switch to English.

Also, the younger and more educated people as well as working people tend to be more open about speaking English than the rest. To sum it up, the French people do not discriminate so much on skin-colour, but more on language-ability; i.e. if you can speak some French, you are "in", else you are "out".

Then there is that thing about etiquette, which incidentally is a French word. The French are rather particular about etiquette, and practices which are acceptable in SG, are completely unacceptable in France. Some things we do in shops unwittingly offend them, which partly explains the sometimes 2nd-class treatment you get from them. We are also guilty of treating certain people in Singapore in a 2nd-class way for various reasons. It's similar.

The other thing about the French is that they are much more guarded people than say, the Americans. They treat people basically in only one of two ways; either you are a complete stranger, or you are like family. That is why most of them appear very cold towards strangers. It's different from say in America where everyone is all smiles. In fact, if anyone walks around the streets smiling to his or herself, the French think that they are weird. It's not right or wrong; it's just the way it is in France. They are not a particularly smiley people.

We have experienced the most wonderful hospitality in the world from a French couple who are currently staying near Lyon. They treated us just like family and brought us everywhere bearing all expenses, even though they hardly knew us. I dare say that even we don't treat most of our guests in the same way.

I completely agree with you about the terrible traffic situation in Paris; though honestly it is not much different from driving in CBD during peak hours or in any big city (London, New York, etc.) during peak hours. The metro system in Paris is among the better (and cheaper!) ones in Europe. It may not be the cleanest, and it is quite old. But I dare say it is far better, topographically wise, than our own MRT system. But of course it is not fair to compare since theirs is much older than ours and they have some 14 lines, compared to our 3 lines or so. Every place in Paris is at most within a few hundred metres from a metro station.

So to sum up, what I must say is that to enjoy one's experience to France (and especially Paris), it does take a bit of homework and even possibly some basic French lessons to enjoy the trip. There are also several books explaining culture shock to non-French people that are useful to read. Probably most people won't be bothered and will continue to be offended by them (rightly or wrongly it is not for me to say); but those who do find out more will be richly rewarded in this increasingly globalized world. Of course this does not apply just to the French but to all nationalities.

Happy traveling to all SGBrides forummers during this festive season.
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rtan

New Member
One of the reasons we get poor treatment in Paris (and often in Italy as well, where we actually felt we got worse treatment than in Paris) is that they do not know how to differentiate between the PRCs, Japanese, and Malaysians / Singaporeans. To them, all of us look the same; just like to us, all Europeans look the same.

Now we know that the reputation of the PRCs in Europe are not particularly good; the Japanese and Malaysians / Singaporeans are better. But since they cannot differentiate among us, they think we are PRCs, and that sometimes explains the bad treatment we get. Of course this kind of racial profiling is bad, and they should not do it. But who is completely innocent of racial profiling? Even we Singaporeans are guilty of it in our own country; we label such-and-such race or nationality of being like that; generalizations may be true to a certain extent, but there are always exceptions, and it is always our responsibility to try to learn more about other people's cultures before judging them.

I hope you had some chance to try the wonderful bread, pastries, cakes, and other desserts while in Paris. The food there is absolutely fantastic, if you know where to eat. Nor do you need to mortgage your HDB flat to get good food. The morning street markets are a joy to just walk around with the aroma of high quality local produce filling the air.
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Wow Raymond says it well. I would tend to agree with him, racial profiling is prolific overseas, in Europe and especially in France... But it really depends on the people you meet. Try speaking the native language, it normally makes people smile to know that you're making an effort to learn more about their way of life and communication.

This may not hold true for France though, from what I've heard and experienced, the French are very proud of their language and don't really like us mispronouncing words and butchering the language.

But in any case, Europe is a beautiful beautiful place for a honeymoon
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Culture abound and fantastic experiences around every corner
 

rtan

New Member
Dear Samantha,

There are websites and free resources where you can hear the actual pronunciations of the French words. They help a lot for the uninitiated.
 

fetus

New Member
I recommend Venice! It was so utterly romantic.
It would be a fantastic honeymoon.

Or I can warmly recommend San Sebastián. The best food in Spain if not in all of Europe. Fabulous city beaches, surfing, hiking and landscapes. My favourite city, and it meet all the romance criterias by miles. The article "A different kind of Spain" gives you an idea of the city and the region: http://marshlands.blogstream.com/

"There is dining that features more Michelin starred restaurants per mile than Paris, New York, or Vienna. There is a culture that brought Woody Allen to the city’s Film Festival last year, brings Herbie Hancock and Bob Dylan to this summer’s Jazz Fest, and embraces Gehry’s Guggenheim Museum just down the coast in Bilbao. There is the zest for life that drew Ernest Hemingway to nearby Pamplona and was immortalized in The Sun Also Rises.
 

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