Getting married... but homeless!


vallous

New Member
newspaper reports high number of applicants for duxton..so u better hurry and cross ur fingers.

I agree with many hands up...that you MUST make sure you dont overstretch your finances. Yup perhaps at the moment with 2 incomes you probably can make it but as economy is so volatile..always stick to the HDB advice to dedicate 30% of what you earn to pay for your housing finances, not used up all. If not one goes out without a job, you will be in big trouble. Never never also think it would never happen to you. Always be prepared. Spend within your means.
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
One consideration, I believe, is to check how much CPF savings you now have in your ordinary accounts for the downpayment, and then find out how much you have to borrow. Also, ascertain how much cash you have to cough out monthly on top of your CPF savings, to service the monthly instalment.
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
If I am not wrong, there are units for sale now mainly because some earlier buyers have backed out due to financial considerations. Work out your sums carefully but for now if you have to decide whether Duxton or Whampoa/Kallang in order to meet the deadline, I would say go with your heart.
 

sparkless

New Member
combined household income exceeds $8k, have to appeal to HDB to buy direct from them. At the same time, HDB will also consider whether you will be qualified for their HDB loan.

above 8k, buy HDB resale from open market, no problem.

I think for balloting exercise, it doesn't matter if you apply early or late during the window period. Is mainly LUCK dependant.
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
Green, income cap also applies for buying EAs and HDB maisonettes directly from HDB.

If want to buy 3-room flat directly from HDB, combined income must not exceed $3K monthly.
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
Green, no income ceiling for EC (executive condominium). But EA and maisonette should be governed by the same set of HDB rules?

If you buy the flat with extended family, the income ceiling is $12K.
 

powder

Active Member
hi femme, without doubt Pinnacle would be my vote, for only 40k difference it's an easy choice.. in fact i'm surprised tat Kallang is that high - so in this instance i feel Kallang would have lesser potential. go for that first, doesn't matter if your chances are higher or lower... u are likely to see Pinnacle touch 1mil prices in the next High, than for Kallang. so that will be the basis of my consideration...

amenities not as heartlander, but good thing got sportiwoode/everton across the road and it's not too far from chinatown.
 

roomfulofstars

New Member
thanks powder!
happy.gif


BTW, how do I calculate legal/ stamp fees?
 

vallous

New Member
1 mil for duxton in the future (no matter what its an hdb flat)???

I understand its the location. If duxton is a private..i can safely say it wil definately exceed 1 mil. But i cannot say the same for a hdb unit duxton. Who the idoit will pay 1 mil for a hdb flat which is 99 yrs compared to a free hold or 999 yrs of private also 1 mil?

of cos this is just my opinion lah...so no offence..i respect urs, powder! (I do admit i am the kiasu..kiasee type). I still feel there is no way hdb flat will exceed 1 mil cos its still a citizen flat. Plus in order to sell in 5 yrs time, one has to pray hard it hits 1 mil so can get back the depreciation value and covers all the interest fees of hdb and cpf. Even if u sell at 800k i doubt u able to break even..counting in the furnishing u dumped in the house as well.

hi femme,

yes you prob right. I cant remember how much i paid for mine but its abt a thousand plus. But knt compare cos i paid my 3 room for 120K. so I guess ur calculation could be right
 

powder

Active Member
Vallous,

it is important If u wanna look at property, to At Least have some side interest in Economics. no need the degree type, but just basic understanding of cost of living, appreciation and the depreciation of money. cos that is where your 1million might be hiding...

u cannot base on Your feel of today's value of money to decide tomorrow's value. u have to bring in historicals and look at where the future is likely to head.

Money is Currency... and as the name currency suggests - it is current, and in many ways like the current of the seas... it changes. Do u see money Appreciating or Depreciating? would we be able to still pay $2.50 for a plate of chicken rice or would it require more pieces of notes?

it wasn't too long ago when HDBs were really affordable. we got our clementi 4room at 23k... why do we say 'cheap'? other than being affordable, it's also becos we are looking at it from today's perspective. 23k is wat we can make in a year... back then salary was in the hundreds... what changed? Dude it's not becos u have a degree... u can have a degree back then and still have difficulty touching just 1k.

which idiot will pay 1mil for duxton? an idiot who has to pay $8 for a plate of chicken rice tat used to be $2, $120 for a shirt tat used to be $40, 5k for an LV tat used to cost 2k, 15k for a rolex tat used to cost 7k.

your money's value shrinks in the bank. whether u believe of not, like it or not - it depreciates. that's how it has been... our parents who put their life-savings of 50k in the bank in 1980 when it can last them 5yrs will see it last them just 2yrs Today.

5yrs back i bought my 4rm HDB at 220k, today it's 450k. u decide if it's a correction in local property prices, or just a bull run. COVs used to be High, but valuation of flats have risen to catch up and close the gap of COV. are houses really that expensive in land-scarce spore? where do u think the resale prices for duxton will be if u bought it from hdb at 600k? this is not woodlands or sembawang, we're talking Location, my number 1 rule.

u want more examples of Location? bras basah 4rm with Only 1 toilet started at 20-30k, 2yrs back it's 350k, today it's asking half mil... it's 26yrs old? it rents for 2.5-3k per month. check the prices of the condos at duxton area... which are ALSO 99yrs... wat's the prices? what would make a HDB at duxton as attractive compared with the condo? 750k is realistic today, when u need more money in future to buy the same product Today - why can't 1-mil be realistic tomorrow?

Look at property, but also look at money. Look at building costs... u can buy land and build a 2storey house for 300k not so long ago, today it's over 1mil. so is 1mil really alot of money? alot of pple are hoping for property prices to come down, and Yes it will... it will soften. but if u think that the prices will go back to 2003 prices, then think again... new HDB flats are sold at Higher prices today, what makes u think they will be sold at today's prices in the next cycle?

abt breaking even your loan, also dun forget - if u take a loan of 30yrs and pay a miserable 3% interest... the bank is the one suffering, Not u. Interest is what we pay to the bank for lending us money we dun have... if they dun lend u, u're fcuked, aren't u? and assuming they dun lend u, u go calculate how long before u save enough to buy a flat in full. and by the time u have your full cash, are u sure the value will remain the same or come down? it's like the 50k our parents kept in 1980, dun u think?

find me a land parcel in spore that has gone down in value.

lastly, i said she's "likely to see Pinnacle touch 1mil prices in the next High, than for Kallang". it's More of a Comparison, and less of valuation in this statement.

hope this explains where i'm coming from. i understand u feel a certain way, but it's not enough to 'feel' on emotions. there will always be historicals and backing for us to make more informed choices rather than just feelings.
 

simpleman

Active Member
stamp fee should be $12,600
Legal fees should be 2K to 3K

If price is 600k, assuming you have cash of 50k and take a loan of 550K.

In 5 years, base on interest of 3% over 30 yrs, interest should be around $80+K. So plus stamp fee + legal fees, if you are thinking of breaking even in 5 years, selling price > $700K

If you throw in furnishing/renovation, you have to factor those in.

If it hits 1M in 5 yrs, then yes, you can make 200K to 300K easily (depending on how much you splurge on the furnishing/renovation)
 

vallous

New Member
hi powder...do see where you are coming from and thanks for the explanation...dont get angry hor..just a difference in idealogy. Yup dont need a degree for economics...but yes i am once a student of business degree. Thats why I count myself a 'sua la' which i said earlier. Not say feel on emotions lah, I believed you had made a lot of sound choices and knew your finances very well. Just afraid many will join the bandwagon without carefully doing their balance sheets. Whether they can or cannot afford it, so just blindly do it because "everyone is doing so".

I am more than welcome to join in with you if I have that much of cash in my bank or even cpf. I am the sort which hates credits and loans. Although its unavoidable at times I do hope to minimise them. For me, I take my 3 room yishun which i bought in feb 08 as a temporary home. Will finished paying by end of 09. Only took loan of 30K. Then we are waiting for golden opportunity to invest in private condos in 3-5 yrs time..like you said we buy on location now. Perhaps in popular districts. We could simply rent out our fully paid yishun unit and subsidised some of our monthly payment at the condo. When need arises we will prob sell of the yishun to buy another private. Goal is to 'own' more than 2 properties. And not stick to one. thus we dont want to be tied down to the first as now we are at the beginning of the marriage where money is very tight, esp the wedding costs.

Yup do understand the logic of future value ..and yes i do agree 1mil is possible. However I do prefer to factor in risks such as recessions and economy downturn in the next 5-10 yrs, over supply of flats and units. I believe what goes up will come down. But if femme can hold much longer and wait for the next spiral up, I am sure she will gain. But before that she has to manage her finances and make sure she can tahan her monthly loans as it is a hefty sum.

paiseh my school of thought is like tat lah.

hey but i do appreciate your lengthy post...

anyway do u have any dream home you like to buy next?? We are also aiming for a private unit in orchard area. Perhaps you can give me advice on which is a better buy.
 

nutty_nutella

New Member
my suggestion is, buy a place within limits. don't be too tied up with the future value of houses. maybe can even consider renting for a while and see what happens next yr. USA is on the brink of recession and i'm sure we'll all be hit by the repercussions.
 

powder

Active Member
hi vallous,

i'm passionate, not angry. actually the bandwagon has a few groups of pple... those who are greedy, those who are too adverse to do anything. Being adverse to any risk or debt does not make u smarter. neither does being greedy... they have a budget of 500k, i dun think looking at a 600k property falls under the greedy nor the blind. so a 200k advice is not gonna be as helpful nor effective, it's just being overly cautious for the sake of it, then perhaps screwing one's own long term plans.

a man with 1mil who keeps the money in the bank is Not wiser than the man who spends 1mil buying a property. i have given u a simple example of money shrinking. a difference in ideology is fine and normal, but the Results of those differences will stare us in the face in a couple of years. by that time when One Has, and One Doesn't, will the one who doesn't say that the other person was Lucky? hindsight is always good, foresight - better. in spore many speak with "i should've.."

when u hate credit and loan, do u know why u hate them? do u know that they can be your frens if u let them? why treat them like enemies? Honestly if u weren't bogged by your hatred, u might be sitting on a property that might be a stronger link to your wait... your wait for a golden opportunity. But do note that 90% of pple dun recognise an opportunity when they see one.

how confident are u of your wait bearing fruit? for a yishun 3rm to jump to well-located condos - it's a Huge jump. your flat may just be enough for the initial 10%. u need a Huge fall to bridge that jump.

yeah what goes up will come down, what goes down must come back up as well... my perception of property prices going up in the past 2 years reflect "what goes down must come back up" - meaning i see it as a correction. But tat's where the ideas differ i guess.

orchard? it's gonna be a challenge to advise for sure... u can still find gems within orchard, but the exposure these past 2 years have made owners very aware of their home's worth, thus making it difficult to get an absolute good deal - cos tat's very much dependent on our personal perception of Value.

okie gonna head out of the house liao, no worries on angry and having different ideas. it's good to pick off each other's brains... rather than keep ideas to ourselves.
 

vallous

New Member
oh for us...its ok for the BIG jump cos actually because of the wedding we din want to invest in a confo first but actually we can rather afford it at this moment. Just that lots of big items to spend and we are still adjusting to our new marriage life. We want to start slow.

cool..thanks for the advice.
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
My colleague booked her 4-room flat at the Pinnacle four years ago for about $370K. Today, the property has appreciated by about $80K!
 

powder

Active Member
more like a 200k jump since she says it's abt 580k. well that's abt right, 370k is an absolute steal and unlikely to be repeated ever again man... also dependent on floor and etc...
 

simpleman

Active Member
doll,

ha ha 4 yrs ago was at a low.

If you have bought a property 14-18 months ago.. today easily make 100K or more for a bigger unit.. so 4 years ago.. will earn even more
 

roomfulofstars

New Member
Think the 5 room ones would cost around $580k. The 4 room ones that Doll mentioned... max is $555k according to the HDB website.

But still, damn scary!
 

life_like_dat

New Member
This is a topic close to our hearts as well. We are now waiting for our first appointment with HDB. We purchased a 5 room flat at Telok Blangah Heights for $535k. 118sqm, 3rd floor, 12 years old flat. Facing Telok Blangah hills.

Based on our current pay, we have to top up additional $200/month as our joint OA is insufficient to pay for the monthly installments. We are getting 30 years loan from HDB. Now my only concern is that we have no money left for retirement as everything is used to pay for the flat. Did we make a foolish decision?
 

vallous

New Member
hmmm..i guess dont think that way lah. Even if you regret now..there is nothing you can do about it.

You still young right. Work hard at both of your careers and start saving CASH.

For us, thats what my hubby and I didnt want to get us into. We dint want to deduct our CPF every month till zero and still gotta fork out hard core cash. We also afraid if need arises like pregnancy, one income down..the other person gotta fork out even more cash. So tats why we made sure we only use some of the CPF to pay and at the same time, roll in more for the retirement and do not touch our cash portion. Anyway I dint use my OA for the house. Our current house is only deducted from my hubby's OA which cost him less than $150/mth.
 

vallous

New Member
oh plus J...do think that you got a rather good location..so at least ur valuation might be higher now. hee..cheer up.
 

life_like_dat

New Member
Hmm Vallous, thanks for replying to my post. You and your hubby are indeed prudent decision makers.
happy.gif


Before we made the decision to buy the house, I was the more risk adverse one and not that keen to commit as I did not want all our finances to be tied down to the house. The price was way beyond our planning as ideally, I would prefer a smaller flat that is below $300k but yet situated near town. We were considering 3 and 4 room flats but unfortunately, the sellers all wanted high COV. In the end,we found this one which the sellers were willing to let go at $5k COV.

Now I worry that if either one were to lose our ricebowl, we would be in big trouble. I hate to be worried about such stuff.
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
Sorry, my colleague's flat already appreciated by $200K, not $80K. Her unit is on the 45th storey. I am not saying that today you get your flat at $580K it would grow by $200K in four years, because 2004 the market was at a low, like what SM has said. Now it is at a high, so if it only grows by $100K five years later, you can only break even.
 

wow_wow

New Member
Yes 4-5 years ago the flat is cheap.. however the market seems to be very weird. i guess its random walk so we wont know the price of the property.

two camp of tots
Economy going bad and affect SG property this IR wont bring in much business and property prices will drop more.

another is. economy recover and sg price will be improve and improve to a price where hdb will be around 800k to 1 mil.. but that is really hopeful.

again i guess its just speculation.
 

powder

Active Member
1stly, let's be fair...

if u're hoping to breakeven on your loan, u're not being fair and expecting to have a shelter for 'free'. Yes, tat's what u Want, a free shelter whilst u should be paying 3k a month in rental from your Cash income, not even cpf - if u didn't have a loan to buy in the first place.

it's not wrong to want to 'not lose money' or breakeven, but it's silly to want that without doing more homework and giving more thoughts and investing time to at least be sure the risks u take is calculated and this scenario is likely to happen. Hoping it'll happen is Not Wise.

i think some pple have gotta change their mindset... alot of pple seem to have this entitlement mindset. that they're entitled to Loans and entitled to Property appreciation like a Given. this is the single most amount of money most of us will be spending, why can't we put more effort into it? to at least make sure that even if things dun go our way, we can weather ths storm and we have no regrets on the best decision we could have made?
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
For investment purposes, if you want a 3-room resale flat to give you some decent profit a few years down the road, I believe it would make better sense to get one near town area (Tiong Bahru, Bt Merah, etc) or in more popular areas such as Holland Village, Toa Payoh, etc. The flats there though more than 30 years old are still going strong.

If you just want to get a resale flat that is suitable for your budget, maybe it's more for a-roof-over-the-head purpose.
 

powder

Active Member
J,

dun waste time worrying on such things. u've already commit, the next thing is focus on building your career and finances. i never saw pple grow richer and making more money from 'worrying'.

i was a single income bachelor when i got my 4rm flat with mum 5yrs back, from there i just concentrated on career and paying focused on paying off the flat in 5yrs... it was a bank loan, not even the cheap cpf interest rate, no grant nor subsidy. i didn't waste time worrying, kept my focus and managed to do it in 3.5yrs. there's 2 of u to do this together so just do it together!

decision made, leave it. One solution to end most problems u might have - focus on career/finances/making more money.

ps: i would not have encouraged stretching from 300k to 500k, but if that decision has been made, dun look back, look ahead instead.
 

powder

Active Member
J,

been thinking abt your jump. i feel i should say this... it's a Huge Jump... to go from comfort of below 300k to abv 500k. in fact i'd super not encourage it, so i'll just ask u to explore the costs of backing out, at least know what's the implications and keep this option open.

it's shitty tat i say wat i say but since my last post, i keep having a recurring afterthought that u might really be stretching yourselves abit here.

i wanna re-iterate that in your shoes, i would give myself just 2 choices... 1) recind and pay penalty. 2) work damn bloody hard and focus on making money to payoff the loan in 10-15yrs.

if u go ahead, stop worrying and just focus focus focus... step 2 is to build up your Financial IQ cos u're gonna need it.

take good care and ride the waves with confidence. enjoy the process and rejoice in Living!
 

jazzproperty

New Member
J....dun worry.

now just work hard to clear yr loans..

when at near yr retirement age, you can always choose to downgrade and bag the profit.

another option is to hav other financial planning for yr retirement....eg. regular saving, endownment, life insurance...etc
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
The Straits Times Digital
2 Oct 2008

Home prices fall after 4yrs
HDB resale flat prices still rising but at a slower pace.
By Fiona Chan

PRIVATE home prices in Singapore fell between July and September - the first time in over four years and after almost a year of deadlock between buyers and sellers in which home sales all but dried up.

Official estimates released by the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) on Thursday showed that overall prices of private residential properties slided 1.8 per cent in the third quarter, led by homes in the central region, which fell by about 2 per cent.

Suburban home prices, however, held steady with a marginal 0.1 per cent rise.

HDB resale flat prices are also still going strong, but at a slower pace. They rose 4.2 per cent in the third quarter, on top of a 4.5 per cent increase in the second quarter.

So far this year, private home prices have risen 2 per cent, while HDB resale prices have increased 13 per cent.

For the first time since 2006, the URA did not highlight the number of upcoming homes in the flash estimates, after concerns that the large headline supply figures would further dampen already gloomy sentiment.

Instead, the agency said housing supply statistics will be released along with the full set of third-quarter property data at the end of October.

The URA said early estimates showed the price index for private residential properties dropped to 174.3 points from 177.5 in the previous three-month period.

This is the first decline in the index since the first quarter of 2004, amid concerns over the global financial turmoil that has caused home sales to slump.

Private home sales in Singapore plummeted 81 per cent in August from a year ago, to the lowest level since March as a combination of global financial turmoil and the traditionally 'unlucky' Hungry Ghost month spooked buyers.

Poor demand and a looming housing glut are threatening to plunge the property market into a prolonged downturn, which could deal a blow to Singapore's top developers such as CapitaLand, CityDev and Keppel Land.

The advance estimates are compiled from transaction prices lodged during the first 10 weeks of the quarter as well as data from new apartments that have been booked.

The URA will release the official price index in four weeks.
 

roomfulofstars

New Member
My HTB and I did some detailed calculations today. The diff in installments per month b/w 4-room and 5-room doesn't seem very significant though. Around $100+. Makes me wonder if I calculated wrongly. But I don't think I did leh... Hmmm...
 

simpleman

Active Member
femme quite easily to calculate.. u got excel

1st cell (a1): interest (say 3%)
2nd cell (b1): years (say 25)
3rd cell (c1) : loan amount (say 500000)
4th cell you use function: =pmt(a1,b1,c1)
The answer is the payment per year, if you divide by 12 that is your monthly installment

this calculate based on yearly basis. you can change interest/year (to month) accordingly
 

roomfulofstars

New Member
thanks guys!
happy.gif


Let me see if I got this right:

Cost of flat = $500,000
Minus 10% downpayment = $450,000
2.6% HDB Loan amount = $461,700
Monthly mortgage = 461700/30/12 = $1,283

Am I doing this right?
 


sgbabydoll

Active Member
Femme, the loan is on compound interest, not 2.6% of the loan for $450K. For accuracy, do use Powder's loan calculator.
 

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