Feeling so down this week,,,,,

[alcifertoh]

"I used to give and give only to be taken for granted. Its no one's fault but my own."

Agreed. It's very human. Depending on how the receiver takes it. But even if it's for someone who appreciates the most simple thing in life, the taking for granted can't be avoided. I am guilty of the act of giving none stop before too and was taken for granted. I too cannot be sure of myself that I would not take someone else for granted if I keep receiving

Hence I feel it should be the right amount giving and taking occasionally. Upset the balance with too much of either definitely ain't gonna be healthy.

 

[simpleman]

skylar,

No lah.. for us... i will take turns.

Sometimes it is 9 or 10pm sg time.

sometimes it is 9am or 10am sg time..

 

[miloice]

sm,

yes. I have expectations in giving. The simple logic that it has to be something that the person enjoys/likes or its truly good for them. Else, I don't do it. Giving beyond that point is plain foolish.

 

[simpleman]

I don't know.. what is take for granted. Isn't when we give.. it is suppose to be taken for granted. If it is not taken for granted.. then what is giving unconditionally?

If we care whether we will be taken for granted.. that is not giving unconditionally..

It is just saying:

"Ok.. I give you now.. but you must appreciate hor.. you cannot take for granted hor.."

 

[skylar]

Sm,

for me, I would usually like to go for late nite calls rather than morning calls.. I hate such..

agree with hbh, too much of the inbalancing of both will not strike a balance point.. at either 1 time.. either side will snap.

 

[simpleman]

milo,

Of course when we give.. the other party has to enjoy it.. but how about you.. do you really feel good giving?

 

[skylar]

SM,

to give unconditionally, frankly not many pple can do this.. This is not an easy task..

taken for granted can means alot of things..

quote an example..

if u were to drive into Shenton Way to pick ur gf up.. say u arrive 10 mins earlier.. u "dun" mind waiting for her.. but as u r aware of.. the parking circumstances in Shenton Way, its hard to tolerate ur willingness to wait..

then again ur gf is late.. u "dun" mind actually but dun tell me u r not the slightest pissed?? such are just form of emotional reaction..

this too can means that you are taken for granted..

 

[simpleman]

skylar,

Ha ha.. actually I have mastered this art already.. trained for many years to wait..

I will just find a parking and stir my coffee.. or read my papers..

You know sometimes, I waited for more than an hour.. then was told to go home.. it ever happened before..

But you know, I was the one who kaypoh want to fetch.. so to me.. I just take it as a ride.. then go home lah..

Actually, even if you wait for more than 1 hr.. not necessary the other party take you for granted.. it could be really something important that the other party could not get away..

 

[alcifertoh]

When I deem unconditional giving, is when we give, we don't ask for anything back. But when we give, we do hope that the party who receive likes what we give and enjoy what we do for them. And that is some form of expectations in here. Just the selfless kind.

When the giving becomes a matter of fact and does not hold the element of it's worth anymore, and one day you are unable to fulfill it and leads to unhappiness due to that, it's taken for granted.

 

[simpleman]

I don't know ..

But I am super patient when it comes to waiting..or even shopping.. I can walk for hours as well carrying bags of shopping..

Of course in a relationship we have expectations. but I don't connect these expectations with the little things that I do.

Things I do are for the other party conveniences.. and because I enjoy giving joy to the other party. I don't expect anything.

Expectations come in other ways which will be communicated but not in connection with.. because I send/fetch you and wait for you everyday.. therefore you must appreciate and be nice to me..

 

[skylar]

SM,

yes, I do know that after hoursssss of waiting, u can be told to go home rather..

ok.. but to be seriously honest, dun tell me u r not pissed at all?? Not even a tiny bit??

sorry to say but I cannot believe it....

if waiting for 1 hr on 1 occassion then fine but if constant waiting for another shd means that ur actions are no longer appreciated.. thus this in turns become taken for granted...

 

[freeport]

"You know sometimes, I waited for more than an hour.. then was told to go home.. it ever happened before.. "

Don know should happy or sad for you liao....sacrifice to me enough. The one & only "SM".

 

[simpleman]

Ok. Let's give some example.

I promise my daughter to send her to school every morning. And yes, I will do it. Except when I am very sick or I am away on biz or I have something very urgent to attend to.

I don't see how my daughter will be unhappy when one morning, I told her I can't send her to school because I am sick.. or I have a important call to make. It happened to me before.. Will it lead to taken for granted?

I don't think so.. so on the other hand, "I should not give her expectation that I can send her to school every morning..?" And when I send her, she will be so surprise and happy? I don't think it works this way.

 

[skylar]

Love is always a give and take situation ain't it?

U cannot be forever giving or forever taking right??

there is no hard and fast rule abt having a must to appreciate the other's action.. but these comes from within.. so appreciation is definitely required..

imagine a whole world just taking but not giving??

 

[skylar]

SM,

for ur example... hmm.. gf & daughter is different.. yet again.. if 1 am, u r sick is fine.. but if every am.. without a valid reason?

guess thats our point..

 

[green_tranquility]

Skylar,
Your hubby can learn to use same car model as SM but dun learn SM's driving style hor.... Speeding and cutting lanes lol :X

Singles can nominate SM for F1 race and Amazing Race!

 

[salsa_babe]

there is a limit to one's patience

No matter how 'super patient' one can be...I dun believe that the person does not get abit angry or pissed at all....when eventually the person dun turn up or give some some excuse for not turning after you have waited for more than 1hour.

If it happened once...ok. But if happens so frequently, tell me frankly....you really dun feel a thing?

 

[skylar]

Green..

whahahahaha.. and the Prize will be what??

A Wife whom is willing to cook & wait???


whahahahahahhaha

 

[alcifertoh]

Well I can quote this. You can keep doing the waiting and such and if one day you are no longer doing it anymore because you don't feel like doing it, would it arise some feeling from receiver that why you are no longer doing it?

The example that you had mentioned for the daughter is due to valid factors and reasons that temporary withdraw the privilledge. Not very strong case. However if it's gonna be a condition for a situation that is to be absent in long run or only reoccur in fewer or nil frequencies, would it not cause any difference?

 

[simpleman]

skylar,

Of course when I made a promise of committment.. i make sure I can fulfil it most of the time.

Like sending my daughter to school. But I NEVER promise to pick her up from school everyday because I know I can't and she understands..

 

[green_tranquility]

Well I believe that SM is one who can wait for hours without being pissed. Cos I have seen another guy like SM. Their patience are superb. I will be displeased if someone makes me wait for hours without a valid reason.

 

[simpleman]

HBH,

precisely. the privilege to my daughter will not be withdrawn.. if like it is to be withdrawn there must be a reason.. like now I have a conf call every morning at that time.. but in the first place.. I would reject such a daily conf call.

I don't see how I will break my promise to my daughter unless something drastic happens.. in this case.. it should be understandable..

 

[skylar]

SM,

I think u misunderstood me.. I am not harping on the PROMISE issue.. I dun think we ever mentioned anything about promising here..

what I am saying here in fact is also a point aware by many others here.. No One lives without emotional feelings be it for being happy, sad, pissed etc...

 

[miloice]

sm, i take joy in seeing how my partner enjoy my pamperings. I see the simple pure happiness in her. This is important to motivate me to continue giving.

I had been in a relationship where I give only because I couldn't bear to see her disappointment. When it come to that stage, its really sad. I felt unappreciated and made use of at that moment.

After moving on, I realized its not her fault. Its mine. I gave & gave. And it just doesn't work. It becomes totally one way and I cannot sustain it. Inside, I became sad and feeling hopeless and unable to satisfy her. I grew that appetite in her beyond what is realistic.

 

[simpleman]

To me.. love and expectations come in different forms.. I don't link to the fact that I need to wait for someone.. therefore that someone take me for granted..

When that someone gives me love and affection.. it is enough.. waiting and fetching to me are really minor things.. if you think about it..

Some people are perpetually late.. I don't know.. they can try to make effort to be early on time .. once or twice.. but still mostly they will be late.. why get so frustrated over it.. if it is your loved ones and you can't change this bad habit of theirs..

I just my papers or on my notebook.. I am not wasting time..

so I won't really be angry.. waiting

 

[alcifertoh]

Yep but however, the taken for granted only kicks in to be of effect the clearest when the privilledge is withdrawn. That is when we see the effect of the doing and effect of it.

And it's not about the promise issue. It does not make a difference for taken for granted with a promise or not. Because with a promise, most people will feel oblight to do so already rather than the form of goodwill. It's adding on the commitment to the goodwill action.

I believe what we mention here are generally on the goodwill and voluntary basis which will eventually lead to spoiling the natural habbit of individuals which cause the feeling of differences if such treatment is being taken off from them. There is the "getting used to" factor here apart from "it's a privilledge".

And the difference of privilledge and getting used to is totally different.

 

[simpleman]

Actually maybe it is me..

It apply to my friends as well.

Recently I had coffee with a guy friend. On 2 occasions... after having met me and we ordered our coffee.. he received a call and had to go immediately..

Imagine I had to drive 30 mins to meet him.. and after 10 mins he went off.

He was apologetic.. but I am perfectly Ok... I drank my own coffee.. do my own stuff..

If he ask me for coffee again, I will go.. I don't know why but he feels so bad about leaving suddenly.. but to me is ok.. what are friends for. I mean it is just a 30 mins drive.. nothing really.. not so much of giving.. but at the end of the day.. we can't be getting upset over such things.

 

[alcifertoh]

Okie lah when urgent matters it's understandable. But not always and be taken as a matter of fact that u would be ok. If the scenario cause you to be always waiting and waiting or just fly your aeroplane everytime u meet up ur friend for coffee that explains how the friend take you for liao mah..

 

[simpleman]

Actually, with the gf, I did not promise her to send/fetch her everyday.. although for a certain period of time I was doing that.

But no.. she don't have the expectation that I will send/fetch her everyday. When on days I can't I just let her know.. she is not unhappy ..

It is important that the communication is done up front. I told her.. yes, I will send/fetch everyday if I can.. mostly I can.. but not 100%. So when I can't, please be understanding and don't ask why. She never ask when I told her I can't.

I don't see how I spoil her nor do I give her wrong expectation. Being with her and driving her is for her convenience and also my pleasure.. When I can't do it.. she understands.. and she make do with whatever she can.

 

[simpleman]

hbh,

Seriously, I don't even think for a moment that my friend was flying my aeroplane. Actually for the second time, I know it is not urgent. Just that his wife called.. and he kan jiong....

I told him. Go lah.. I understand perfectly. At the end of the day, not really a big deal.

 

[simpleman]

salsa,

You will be surprise that "waiting for someone" who never turn up.. happens to me frequently..

You are right, at times may feel pissed off. But I look beyond that. Mostly there must be reasons right? So whether you choose to believe in the reasons or not.

Seriously, mostly I am not angry. I just drive and walk away..

 

[simpleman]

Anyway, I am probably a rare breed.. so I can't really expect other people to think or act like me.

For me, I rather be happy than be pissed off.. a very simple choice..

 

[skylar]

sm,

since u soo rare ah.. u must be kept in the zoo & be protected.. whahahahaha..

just kidding..

well.. I guess different pple behaves or react differently ba...

 

[sgbabydoll]

Hey SM, you are indeed an endangered species. Jokes aside, I think you are at a level that most of us are not.

 

[alcifertoh]

Yep but there ought to be people who would take your good nature for granted and exploit advantages from you lor... N they would likely weight the other priorities over you thinking that you would not mind anyway, so why not since they can impose on your time and such to their convenience.

 

[miloice]

hi sm,

its not really just about waiting. When we do things for our loved ones and they don't appreciate or value it, it becomes pointless. They are adults fully capable to caring for themselves. We don't need to go all out to pamper them when they don't even feel anything about it.

This point for me its very clear. If my pampering is being ignored, I will ask if she needs it. And if the answer is negative or ignorance, I will stop it. When the disappointment kicks in and she misses it, I will pamper her again. But, letting her realize its an effort I put in. Because I want her to be happy. If she isn't happy with it, no point for me to continue. Its really this simple.

I see alot of this with my mum. She doesn't know when to stop in showering her mother care for us and now her grandchildren. Its till a point its very difficult to manage. She feels unappreciated when her grandchildren resents her pamperings.

Its really pointless. Time and resources are limited. I am never stingy with them but I spend them wisely. I will pour them on my loved ones when they need and love it. There is always a right amount and moment for it.

 

[simpleman]

milo,

I understand perfectly.. just that I attached much less importance .

Like if you are fetching someone. so you ask, do you appreciate me coming to fetch you?

If you appreciate, then I will fetch.. else it is pointless for me to fetch?

I don't quite agree. Definitely fetching someone is a privilege and a convenience for that someone. But if you don't fetch, it does not mean life and death.. life still goes on.. he/she can take a bus/taxi.. etc etc..

For me, there is value in it. from my point of view - saving time.

Pampering, yes I can understand. But sending/fetching is a not a form of pampering to me.

I find it tiresome that we have to resort to asking and withdrawing care.. when our love one misses our care then we pamper again? I am totally lost on this. Why need to do this. Can't we just communicate directly?

The difference between me and your mom is that I won't feel unappreciated because at the outset, I don't treat my actions as pampering or showing extraordinary care or love.

To me, it is just part and parcel of me.

I am a busy man as well and you don't suppose that I waste a lot of time waiting. No.. I do my stuff.. I always have my laptop with me. I made phone calls. I don't sit and stir coffee. Even sitting and stirring coffee is also a me-time to gather my thoughts... not necessary wasting of time and resources.

 

[simpleman]

hbh,

I do know my friends. There are people I never associate with if as and when I know I am being exploited.

These type of friends as you see, I won't even mention about them..

 

[miloice]

sm, not quite like this. Alot of the communication goes beyond the verbal ones. If my wife is to send me all the body language, black face etc that she doesn't at all need or appreciate my extra effort, then I would really feedback how pointless it is and ask her what she really wants and need.

It doesn't mean I'm so bo liao to challenge her for every need that I provide. That's not striking a balance. That's being an ass!

The thing is people will tend to take others for granted. We are programmed this way. I have learnt that the best way for your loved ones to enjoy it is for them to realize its value. The goal is really for our loved ones to truly benefit the max from it. We take people for granted subconsciously through our actions daily. The right amount of feedback keeps that in check.

I do this all the time. And its not tiring. On the fetching, yes its not pampering. As I mentioned, its not specific to waiting either. Fetching has more to do with convenience. Things done out of convenience is not really pampering. Unless its a down pour or she is not well and I take time specifically to go down and bring her to a doctor or something.

 

[simpleman]

Like I have a friend.. we never see for a year or two.. never contact in between.

And when she contacted me recently, I was surprised but immediately I knew it was something important.

True to it. She wanted to borrow money from me. I did not hesitate for a moment. I transferred the money to her right away.

You may say I am stupid or that how come got this type of friend .... only call you when needing your help?

The fact is that I know her very well. Yes, we hardly keep in contact - but it does not mean that there is no friendship. I know if I call her any time, she will set aside time for me. I didn't call her because I know she was busy with other priorities.. It does not mean that I as a friend is not important.

And because I know her. She won't call me unless it is absolutely necessary and to borrow money! So I did not even ask what was the money for.

I would be more pissed off if she did not call me if she needs help .. cos she did not treat me as a friend at all.

 

[miloice]

sm,

the key is really u know her. You will not dish out money to absolutely anyone right? Its only to pple u trust enough to give the benefit of the doubt.

I don't think you are stupid. I would do the same too provided I know the person enough to trust her not to take advantage of me. There is no need for the friend to do some audit to prove their case. The trust is given on the friendship and integrity you believe in her.

 

[simpleman]

milo,

Now you talk about body language.. but as you know.. women will have moods. she may be unhappy over other things.. and show you black face when you went to fetch her.. it does not mean she don't appreciate you coming..

To me, it is all about communication. If you wife is black face when she gets into the car, you will ask her.. if she wants to talk she will.. else let her be..

So how does that translate whether she appreciates you or not?

To me is very simple. I do things for loved ones as I know at the outset it is convenient and they enjoy it. Or at the very least, they should not be unhappy with what you are doing. So as long as I am happy doing it, I will continue to do it. No need to look at body language or ask. No need to withdraw. If I can't do it on that day, I will let them know. If they not happy with me withdrawing that on that day, they will and should let me know.

I don't see any reason why I should change this mode of operation when obviously, the people I love are happy with it. I am happy with it. On days in which I don't offer this service, there are no issues so far..

 

[simpleman]

milo,

I know that. Cos I was talking to a mutual friend and he questioned me.. cos he said.. she long time also never contact us.. call only to borrow money.. this type of friend.

You see, some people measure friends by the number of times they call/meet or the length of time they meet/talk?

I don't.

Then I heard from another mutual friend - a lady this time round. She was telling me that the friend who borrowed money from me was for some family emergency.. and she was at her wits ends and she knew I would lend her but she called me as a last resort when all else failed. She still feel very bad not having keep in contact with me more often..

 

[alcifertoh]

Yeah of course there are friends whom we will be going our way out to help within our capability because we know them well enough to have this trust in them.

On other hand, have you not met any of those fair weather people whom you seen with the possibility of developing the similar type of trust but in the end noticed that they have other agendas? Or you would continue to feed them with the goodness and still remain happy for they might have their reasons for their actions?

 

[freeport]

sm,
Was wondering did ur loved one request anything from you beside all above? so did you please them?

 

[simpleman]

Actually is very funny.

I was just talking about driving/fetching/picking-up and waiting for loved ones.

And also having dinner at home with loved ones daily.

Are these pampering? You people seem to make a big deal out of these simple acts. To me it cost me nothing much..

I am not talking about big sacrifices.. but are we so caught up in our lives that such simple acts become pampering and sacrifices?

I wonder..

 

[simpleman]

rachel,

Money? Holidays? Time?

I don't know.. Mostly they don't ask.. cos normally I give before they ask..

 

[simpleman]

hbh,

Of course I have seen such friends.. there are still a couple of them who ran away after borrowing money from me... recently I met one of them but I think he turned and walked away quickly.. actually I didn't quite blame him cos he was made a bankrupt.. and I won't be chasing after him.. I wouldn't mind if he has told me he was bankrupt rather than just refused to take my call.

And you know this friend of mine. He very scared of wife one.. when wife call he has to go.. so in a way when I was with him having coffee.. if his wife calls I would know and ask him to go.. I won't make things difficult for him..

He as no agenda.. So if he calls me for dinner/coffee, I will go lah.. mostly he would buy because mostly he is the one that need to go off suddenly.. so in a way, I have free meals

 

[simpleman]

rachel,

And of course.. Love.. I give plenty away..

 

[miloice]

sm,

it doesn't cost nothing. Most gals can make guys wait a great deal but not tolerant to even wait a few mins. Committing to this kind of expectation is no-no for me! If someone needs me to fetch them, then expect to be flexible in the timing. The traffic is dynamic and I can only leave office after my stuffs are done. Its really this simple. I'm not a professional driver that will be waiting downstairs in the carpark ready to be page at the instance.

You seem to belittle all the efforts needed to do things out of the way. Doing it one time could really be nothing. But, making sure to be home before 7pmn daily isn't that simple in most context in singapore. Its simply not sustainable for everyone. It is not the same as picking up a colleauge on your way home. That is convenience, it comes with no / little cost.

So u see, its not as simple as fetching someone. The expectation can be so very different. If someone is growing demanding with simple tasks that we do for them, the balance in the expectation needs to be set right. Else, we will really become their personal driver.