infojunkie
Active Member
"There it goes, another forummer targetting at fellow forummer"
not targetting u...
i'm reading u inside out
isn't it obvious?
not targetting u...
i'm reading u inside out
isn't it obvious?
Extramarital Affair: Truly in love with each other
- Thread starter anth
- Start date
miloice
Well-Known Member
I laugh at the inability to see beyond personal morals and assumptions. Most people do not approve of Extramarital Affair at all but is this thread about our approval? Do you not see that issue? We are taking our yardstick to judge on situations that we have hardly any knowledge of.
miloice
Well-Known Member
"Didn't know so many people like to be in this position."
The assumption that anyone that disagrees with you is somehow wanting and liking to be in an affair is amusing. You draw very wrong conclusions that expose your ignorance and inability to see beyond the face value.
The assumption that anyone that disagrees with you is somehow wanting and liking to be in an affair is amusing. You draw very wrong conclusions that expose your ignorance and inability to see beyond the face value.
infojunkie
Active Member
oh jenny, get a grip of urself...
Precisely I don't want to be a miserable ignorant assumed blissful wife leh, so I also don't want to have a scumbag husband who assumes ignorant = bliss.
You read me? True?
Anyway, I don't want to be forummer targetting at fellow forummer. Say what you want. Meaningless to continue with you.
You read me? True?
Anyway, I don't want to be forummer targetting at fellow forummer. Say what you want. Meaningless to continue with you.
infojunkie
Active Member
ok
Ya loh. Some forummers can't take it that I disagree with them and have to resort to insulting my nick. Btw, I am not an ajumma yet. Just like the nick. 
Thank you Ant for your reply. I think when things come to a certain point, you will have the courage to go ahead.
power and junkie, this whole issue is basically just a discussion. It's not naive to try to cover all angles and make sure everyone is taken care of.
This is called loving responsibly. Like Ant, he is trying to take care of his kids and parents' feelings.
But the wife's feelings also must be considered. She may be harsh with him, but still, they are husband and wife.
You cannot just have a wife around to take care of the your children, and suddenly, one fine day, tell her you always intended to leave her.
It's just selfish. And no matter how harsh a person she is, do you think she can take the blow?
Fr Ant's view, there is no love in the marriage. What abt the wife? She has also invested a lot of time and effort to take care of the children. Would she do so if she did not love the family?
Marriage as many have said, is the tombstone of love. This is because by nature, when a couple stays together, stress comes, and issues arise and somehow the love gets lost. Ant is feeling this way. His wife is feeling the same.
Maybe her harsh comment to Ant at the hospital was because she has been slogging all week at home and he hasn't helped her the least bit.
As someone said, Ant's situation is not new. Many couples face it. They cry out for love and affection and some look elsewhere. But the fact is, there are also couples who have rediscovered that love too with their spouses.
If you loved someone before, you can love them again. It depends on whether you want to or not.
And if you never loved her to begin with and the whole marriage was a mistake, it makes sense to get out when you can. Don't wait till your children are all grown up and you're in your 50s. First, you have not much time to enjoy life with your new spouse. Second, you will be leaving your ex wife with no way to support herself when she's old. Does she have CPF? Will u offer to pay her alimony? I have seen women who were divorced by their hubbies in their late years. There are really sad cases where they r reduced to poverty. They have spent all their life caring for their children and don't have savings of their own.
I know some people dislike the idea of marriage counselling, but I still would like to suggest that Ant and his wife go for it. At least give it a try and confirm that there is nothing more you can do abt your marriage before you proceed.
Thank you Ant for your reply. I think when things come to a certain point, you will have the courage to go ahead.
power and junkie, this whole issue is basically just a discussion. It's not naive to try to cover all angles and make sure everyone is taken care of.
This is called loving responsibly. Like Ant, he is trying to take care of his kids and parents' feelings.
But the wife's feelings also must be considered. She may be harsh with him, but still, they are husband and wife.
You cannot just have a wife around to take care of the your children, and suddenly, one fine day, tell her you always intended to leave her.
It's just selfish. And no matter how harsh a person she is, do you think she can take the blow?
Fr Ant's view, there is no love in the marriage. What abt the wife? She has also invested a lot of time and effort to take care of the children. Would she do so if she did not love the family?
Marriage as many have said, is the tombstone of love. This is because by nature, when a couple stays together, stress comes, and issues arise and somehow the love gets lost. Ant is feeling this way. His wife is feeling the same.
Maybe her harsh comment to Ant at the hospital was because she has been slogging all week at home and he hasn't helped her the least bit.
As someone said, Ant's situation is not new. Many couples face it. They cry out for love and affection and some look elsewhere. But the fact is, there are also couples who have rediscovered that love too with their spouses.
If you loved someone before, you can love them again. It depends on whether you want to or not.
And if you never loved her to begin with and the whole marriage was a mistake, it makes sense to get out when you can. Don't wait till your children are all grown up and you're in your 50s. First, you have not much time to enjoy life with your new spouse. Second, you will be leaving your ex wife with no way to support herself when she's old. Does she have CPF? Will u offer to pay her alimony? I have seen women who were divorced by their hubbies in their late years. There are really sad cases where they r reduced to poverty. They have spent all their life caring for their children and don't have savings of their own.
I know some people dislike the idea of marriage counselling, but I still would like to suggest that Ant and his wife go for it. At least give it a try and confirm that there is nothing more you can do abt your marriage before you proceed.
infojunkie
Active Member
"Ya loh. Some forummers can't take it that I disagree with them and have to resort to insulting my nick. Btw, I am not an ajumma yet. Just like the nick. "
wah, rally support liao... what an ajumma.
" wah, rally support liao... what an ajumma.
Yes, I am voicing out my view. Cos I am being made a stupid ignorant yet assumed blissful wife. I don't know how many of u like to be in this state or agree this is ok, but I am only giving my view only. Why assume the ignorant spouse will be blissful if ignorant? Why TS gives himself a chance to find his happiness (albeit underground) but deny his wife a chance?
Ok, this is my view only. TS needs not agree with me. Fellow forummers also need not agree with me. What TS ultimately decides to do is his own free will. No one can give approval or decide for him. Ultimately one is answerable to one's life.
Have a life! Don't keep fighting and keep going round and round!
Ok, this is my view only. TS needs not agree with me. Fellow forummers also need not agree with me. What TS ultimately decides to do is his own free will. No one can give approval or decide for him. Ultimately one is answerable to one's life.
Have a life! Don't keep fighting and keep going round and round!
jenny,
the forum is a platform, it is Not an alliance. it is moot to ask why forummers argue amongst themselves when in the same breath u say that "everyone is entitled to his/her opinion and you can't make everyone agrees with you."
what u may be looking for is a Survey forum, where u can say what u want, but u will not hear what others say, and no-one can dispute u.
i dun really know how u get the idea that YOU are being targetted. When everyone is engaging one another... u suddenly proclaim that u're being singled out for attack. seriously, u are not that special and nobody knows who u are, so why take it personally when it wasn't even personal.
i think u need to check on other forums to understand the dynamics, before u start going all emo and feeling unloved.
the forum is a platform, it is Not an alliance. it is moot to ask why forummers argue amongst themselves when in the same breath u say that "everyone is entitled to his/her opinion and you can't make everyone agrees with you."
what u may be looking for is a Survey forum, where u can say what u want, but u will not hear what others say, and no-one can dispute u.
i dun really know how u get the idea that YOU are being targetted. When everyone is engaging one another... u suddenly proclaim that u're being singled out for attack. seriously, u are not that special and nobody knows who u are, so why take it personally when it wasn't even personal.
i think u need to check on other forums to understand the dynamics, before u start going all emo and feeling unloved.
Jenny, I've read your thread. Sorry to hear that you're in the predicament of the wife, where your husband is having an affair but die die don't want to divorce.
It's bad. Really sorry that you're caught in this, you hardly talk yet he still wants to hold on to you. I think if you can find some evidence against him, you can file for divorce and move on to a better life.
It's bad. Really sorry that you're caught in this, you hardly talk yet he still wants to hold on to you. I think if you can find some evidence against him, you can file for divorce and move on to a better life.
ajumma,
"It's not naive to try to cover all angles and make sure everyone is taken care of."
- i would definitely like to cover all angles and make everyone happy if that were possible. but i believe it isn't and some pple will definitely get hurt... most times, pple are hurt as much by others - as much as they are by their own mindset. it would be hard to hurt a detached person.
would suggest u put point by point, how u propose to make everyone happy... to prove how possible it can be. else honestly, it is pretty naive to me.
the pple who have to be happy here would be 1) TS, 2) Wife, 3) Mum, 4) Kids, 5) Gfren, 6) Gren's hubby, 7) Gfrens' kids, 8) Gfren's immediate family.
SHOW ME.
"It's not naive to try to cover all angles and make sure everyone is taken care of."
- i would definitely like to cover all angles and make everyone happy if that were possible. but i believe it isn't and some pple will definitely get hurt... most times, pple are hurt as much by others - as much as they are by their own mindset. it would be hard to hurt a detached person.
would suggest u put point by point, how u propose to make everyone happy... to prove how possible it can be. else honestly, it is pretty naive to me.
the pple who have to be happy here would be 1) TS, 2) Wife, 3) Mum, 4) Kids, 5) Gfren, 6) Gren's hubby, 7) Gfrens' kids, 8) Gfren's immediate family.
SHOW ME.
Aiyo, when did I victimise myself and emo and unloved?
I just said from the point of view of a wife who has been made a fool by the husband's affairs. Just for TS to ponder a bit what he thinks may not be what his wife wants leh. Just like what happens to me.
That's all my intention.
I just said from the point of view of a wife who has been made a fool by the husband's affairs. Just for TS to ponder a bit what he thinks may not be what his wife wants leh. Just like what happens to me.
That's all my intention.
infojunkie
Active Member
ajumma,
fyi, TS is oso going thru a difficult time...
fyi, TS is oso going thru a difficult time...
infojunkie
Active Member
"Just like what happens to me"
see?
see?
Lol, your 1 heartbeat comment is funny. National day coming.
powder, the situation is such that it will never make anyone particularly happy. But as u can see from Jenny's case, I'm sure she will feel relieved if her hb can agree to divorce.
So, I believe there is a better way to handle things than what Ant is doing now. Presuming that they've gone all out to save their marriage and it doesn't work, here are the benefits of a divorce.
TS: surely he will be happier being free to love his soulmate. He said that he felt it was a struggle to hide his feelings.
Wife: she will be very unhappy to hear of the divorce, but she may feel relieved, like Jenny. At least now she can pursue her own happiness and is not tied to a hb who is already not in love with her and just treats her coldly at home.
Mum: the hb's mum is ill and in hospital. She need not be told abt this.
Kids: explain to them that mum and dad no longer love each, but they will always love the kids. How they choose to react is the consequence that Ant has to bear.
Gfren: same, she has freedom to love Ant.
Kids: ditto as for Ant's kids.
Immediate family of gf: if they are understanding well and good, but marriages have been made without family blessings and they still turn out well.
powder, the situation is such that it will never make anyone particularly happy. But as u can see from Jenny's case, I'm sure she will feel relieved if her hb can agree to divorce.
So, I believe there is a better way to handle things than what Ant is doing now. Presuming that they've gone all out to save their marriage and it doesn't work, here are the benefits of a divorce.
TS: surely he will be happier being free to love his soulmate. He said that he felt it was a struggle to hide his feelings.
Wife: she will be very unhappy to hear of the divorce, but she may feel relieved, like Jenny. At least now she can pursue her own happiness and is not tied to a hb who is already not in love with her and just treats her coldly at home.
Mum: the hb's mum is ill and in hospital. She need not be told abt this.
Kids: explain to them that mum and dad no longer love each, but they will always love the kids. How they choose to react is the consequence that Ant has to bear.
Gfren: same, she has freedom to love Ant.
Kids: ditto as for Ant's kids.
Immediate family of gf: if they are understanding well and good, but marriages have been made without family blessings and they still turn out well.
I don't think I'm being naive. I think it's just that the threadstarter prefers the safe way out.
But the safe way is also the selfish way, especially if the women had given up their jobs to take care of the children at home. It's easier for older divorced men, no more kids responsibility, lots of CPF money. They can do what they like.
But like I said, I've met women in their late years whose husbands divorced them for another and they r now living in poverty. Altho I do not know the reason for the divorces, I cannot help but feel sorry for them that they have sacrificed their life for their kids and hubby and in return, all they got was "you are not a good wife. kids grown up now. bye bye."
It's just cruel, no matter how bad they were in their youth.
But the safe way is also the selfish way, especially if the women had given up their jobs to take care of the children at home. It's easier for older divorced men, no more kids responsibility, lots of CPF money. They can do what they like.
But like I said, I've met women in their late years whose husbands divorced them for another and they r now living in poverty. Altho I do not know the reason for the divorces, I cannot help but feel sorry for them that they have sacrificed their life for their kids and hubby and in return, all they got was "you are not a good wife. kids grown up now. bye bye."
It's just cruel, no matter how bad they were in their youth.
miloice
Well-Known Member
jenny... there is a assumption that TS scenario is the same and so you placed your personal disgust over it. To others, we don't know the full picture. Pointless to make a condemnation. Rather, just point out to TS various aspects that he could be too clouded to see at his current state. It isn't an agreement or disapproval of his actions. As mentioned, its subjective and completely pointless to go on along this line.
If you present why it would be selfish and hurting to his wife instead of focus on condemnation, you would probably not get the response.
If you present why it would be selfish and hurting to his wife instead of focus on condemnation, you would probably not get the response.
reddyredlee
New Member
Hi Ant, your PM is not on. Please PM me instead.
Milo
Sorry lor, I am just being v straight-forward cos' don't like deceits and lies and hiding of feeling leh. Don't like people esp men to be sleazy and dilly dally. That's why the immediate disgust with the double lives of TS.
So cannot show emotion in forum ah? Ok ok, I remember to do so in future. See my first 2 posts on 29/7 were more emotionaless.
Sorry lor, I am just being v straight-forward cos' don't like deceits and lies and hiding of feeling leh. Don't like people esp men to be sleazy and dilly dally. That's why the immediate disgust with the double lives of TS.
So cannot show emotion in forum ah? Ok ok, I remember to do so in future. See my first 2 posts on 29/7 were more emotionaless.
xiao_nu_ren
New Member
Haiz,
Reading through this whole thread, strongly affirmed the sentence, 'Men are from Mars and Women from Venus.'
Mindset are different, and men definitely withdraw themselves from the situation in order to advise the situation.
Jenny, like you, I was a victim of extramarital affair. Thus, when the TS first posted, I felt strongly for the poor wife/poor husband of the adulterous couple in the story.
However, after I read out Powder's posting to my hubby, the guy whom broke my heart before, he explained to me why he agreed on his point. And patiently draw out scenarios and examples to make things simpler for me to understand the whole hoo haa of this thread. Greatful to him as I am, but of course, I do not deny I still will side the victim more in such cases.
And well, what most had pointed out is true. TS had not come here for our approval for his behavior. Instead, he's coming in here for opinion. I'd definitely learnt to keep my heart open when I read through the post of all forumers. Though I was quite offended by Powder initially on some comments he'd made. But not anymore. This is just a place for us to share our thoughts and to learn more about life. Not about taking sides.
Cheers people.
Reading through this whole thread, strongly affirmed the sentence, 'Men are from Mars and Women from Venus.'
Mindset are different, and men definitely withdraw themselves from the situation in order to advise the situation.
Jenny, like you, I was a victim of extramarital affair. Thus, when the TS first posted, I felt strongly for the poor wife/poor husband of the adulterous couple in the story.
However, after I read out Powder's posting to my hubby, the guy whom broke my heart before, he explained to me why he agreed on his point. And patiently draw out scenarios and examples to make things simpler for me to understand the whole hoo haa of this thread. Greatful to him as I am, but of course, I do not deny I still will side the victim more in such cases.
And well, what most had pointed out is true. TS had not come here for our approval for his behavior. Instead, he's coming in here for opinion. I'd definitely learnt to keep my heart open when I read through the post of all forumers. Though I was quite offended by Powder initially on some comments he'd made. But not anymore. This is just a place for us to share our thoughts and to learn more about life. Not about taking sides.
xiao_nu_ren
New Member
<font color="aa00aa">PS: I'm leaving the debate of the thread to be argued between hubby and myself. Sometimes, this thread is a useful excuse I can bring up to throw out the remaining '委屈' I still feel from his affair couple of yrs ago. Still trying to forget....</font>
ajumma,
"the situation is such that it will never make anyone particularly happy. But as u can see from Jenny's case, I'm sure she will feel relieved if her hb can agree to divorce."
- that is my point. and sadly, i dun think Jenny nor Princess Diana can be the yardstick for any arguments. i would go with His Assessment of His Wife for now, altho i would share what Jenny shared abt her feelings as a person on the receiving end.
sorry, but u Are being naive even tho u don't think so. your examples are just as much a guess as it is an assumption. And suddenly, her mum need not know... and the wife May feel relieved, the kids' reaction becomes a "consequence that Ant has to bear."...
so tell me how the perfect management of everyone became just guesses of reaction? dun u think in every scenario u mentioned, that Happiness is abt hoping and guessing? and not a certainty... this is very different from your earlier Certainty in expecting him to confess, like with immediate effect.
so by not saying anything, it is to Prefer the "the safe way out."?
what is your definition of "safe way out"? isit really Safe? i dun even think the word "safe" has any use for the context here... i dun see how keeping quiet, is gonna be the Unsafe way. it doesn't hurt anyone at the moment, altho it is rather unfair to the wife (whose situation i believe i am unable to assess n assume for now).
the only pple 'hurt' at the present moment, would be the pple in this forum, yes? Becos WE have that knowledge Now...
and if u see the Strong Reaction for strangers with such knowledge... dun u think it's fair to assume that loved ones may react even worse? So give him opinions and give him TIME.
i can imagine he posts that he decided to tell his wife, then u guys will go patting his back that That is the right thing to do...
and his wife commits suicide with the children.
this is a possibility isn't it? just as much as u throw all sorts of possibilities, no Certainties.
what are u gonna say? "sorry to hear abt that..."?
"the situation is such that it will never make anyone particularly happy. But as u can see from Jenny's case, I'm sure she will feel relieved if her hb can agree to divorce."
- that is my point. and sadly, i dun think Jenny nor Princess Diana can be the yardstick for any arguments. i would go with His Assessment of His Wife for now, altho i would share what Jenny shared abt her feelings as a person on the receiving end.
sorry, but u Are being naive even tho u don't think so. your examples are just as much a guess as it is an assumption. And suddenly, her mum need not know... and the wife May feel relieved, the kids' reaction becomes a "consequence that Ant has to bear."...
so tell me how the perfect management of everyone became just guesses of reaction? dun u think in every scenario u mentioned, that Happiness is abt hoping and guessing? and not a certainty... this is very different from your earlier Certainty in expecting him to confess, like with immediate effect.
so by not saying anything, it is to Prefer the "the safe way out."?
what is your definition of "safe way out"? isit really Safe? i dun even think the word "safe" has any use for the context here... i dun see how keeping quiet, is gonna be the Unsafe way. it doesn't hurt anyone at the moment, altho it is rather unfair to the wife (whose situation i believe i am unable to assess n assume for now).
the only pple 'hurt' at the present moment, would be the pple in this forum, yes? Becos WE have that knowledge Now...
and if u see the Strong Reaction for strangers with such knowledge... dun u think it's fair to assume that loved ones may react even worse? So give him opinions and give him TIME.
i can imagine he posts that he decided to tell his wife, then u guys will go patting his back that That is the right thing to do...
and his wife commits suicide with the children.
this is a possibility isn't it? just as much as u throw all sorts of possibilities, no Certainties.
what are u gonna say? "sorry to hear abt that..."?
miloice
Well-Known Member
Jenny, u r still not getting it. We are all with emotions. Its not about that. Reread the kind of conclusion and judgements you made. Are these objective?
"Didn't know so many people like to be in this position."
You made that assumption that others are defending the TS in believing in Extramarital Affair. You have continue to draw wrong conclusions. Your judgement could be clouded by emotions, when u have calmed down and rationalized things, what's your conclusion? That you should not be affected by your emotions in your judgement OR that its totally fine to shoot at anyone and pass judgements because we are simply emotional?
Humans are all emotional, for sure. But we can rationalize things. At the end of the day, you would want to move on. Do we progress thinking we should just bash everyone cos we are hurt? Not quite right? We draw the right lessons only after we are able to rationalize and make sense of it all. The worry here is many people do not pick up the lessons in life if we only see ourselves as victims of the situation and others as villians and aggressors.
There will be no discussions if this is only a thread for venting and outburst of emotions.
"Didn't know so many people like to be in this position."
You made that assumption that others are defending the TS in believing in Extramarital Affair. You have continue to draw wrong conclusions. Your judgement could be clouded by emotions, when u have calmed down and rationalized things, what's your conclusion? That you should not be affected by your emotions in your judgement OR that its totally fine to shoot at anyone and pass judgements because we are simply emotional?
Humans are all emotional, for sure. But we can rationalize things. At the end of the day, you would want to move on. Do we progress thinking we should just bash everyone cos we are hurt? Not quite right? We draw the right lessons only after we are able to rationalize and make sense of it all. The worry here is many people do not pick up the lessons in life if we only see ourselves as victims of the situation and others as villians and aggressors.
There will be no discussions if this is only a thread for venting and outburst of emotions.
"Mindset are different, and men definitely withdraw themselves from the situation in order to advise the situation.
Jenny, like you, I was a victim of extramarital affair. Thus, when the TS first posted, I felt strongly for the poor wife/poor husband of the adulterous couple in the story"
Of course Men and Women are different. And women like to see themselves more as a "victim" than as a part of the problem?
In the classical sense, I am no different from Jenni nor Chilli Queen - I can be considered a "victim". But I never consider myself that - NEVER before and definitely not now. While I can understand the feelings of the betrayed, I don't feel strongly for the poor wife as being betrayed. I have been there and done that. How poor we are as a victim is our own making. The thing has happened, victim or not, we got to move forward.
I don't feel at all disgusted with TS has done.. yes, he may not face the reality - but I don't know him enough to comment..
For every thing that happens to us - we have a choice. Like Jenni, yes the hb refused to divorce or separate - but she can take action. But to play victim and be paralyzed by inaction and yet blame the hb for refusing to divorce/separate and have an affair is not helping things.
We can assign blame but ultimate we are dependent upon ourselves for happiness.. not our scumbag hb. If we continue to hold on to actions of him to pin blame on - then don't we have to take some responsibility for our own happiness?
The purpose is not to scold or blame anyone but to offer another perspective.
tomasulu
Member
Ajumma has a good point. The husband has all but given up on the marriage. He is not putting anything else into it and will likely divorce the wife when the kids are older. If it's something he's told his wife and his wife's agreed to the arrangement then it's a different story. Ts is not just a father he is also a husband. He has obligations as a husband even if the wife is horrible. He said he's not divorcing his wife because of his children. The irony is that the children, when they turn adults, will likely respect/appreciate him more if he's done differently. I don't know how you can be a good father if you treat your wife with indifference. And when the cheating couple elevates their involvement, their families will almost certainly get to know their dalliance.
look here, i do not condone marital affairs, but when it happens. i believe we have to look at each case...
the reason Why pple married is very much your root of the problem.
i have said since years ago in this forum that pple marry for the stupidest of reasons, and not everyone marry beocs if the natural progression of love.
reasons include HDB, escaping from family, wanting to have a dream wedding, arranged marriages, parental pressure, grandparent dying so need to marry to 'bring good luck', unwanted pregnancy, religious-matchmaking, PR & Citizenship, wanting to have a dream Home (hdb), cannot afford Not To get married (lose d/payment for DBSS), grew-up together and always thought u will marry each other.
many who marry young, very young... may have a lack of exposure. all these are OK if u dun get exposed, by in today's internet age... u get exposed all the fcuking time. Facebook? Friendster?
u get to mingle with like-minded pple like never before... before this u only have exposure to a few girls... now u have 200 facebook frens.
Unless u bother to know the root-cause, i dun think it's wise to apply the "all extra-marital affairs are wrong" popular theory.
the reason Why pple married is very much your root of the problem.
i have said since years ago in this forum that pple marry for the stupidest of reasons, and not everyone marry beocs if the natural progression of love.
reasons include HDB, escaping from family, wanting to have a dream wedding, arranged marriages, parental pressure, grandparent dying so need to marry to 'bring good luck', unwanted pregnancy, religious-matchmaking, PR & Citizenship, wanting to have a dream Home (hdb), cannot afford Not To get married (lose d/payment for DBSS), grew-up together and always thought u will marry each other.
many who marry young, very young... may have a lack of exposure. all these are OK if u dun get exposed, by in today's internet age... u get exposed all the fcuking time. Facebook? Friendster?
u get to mingle with like-minded pple like never before... before this u only have exposure to a few girls... now u have 200 facebook frens.
Unless u bother to know the root-cause, i dun think it's wise to apply the "all extra-marital affairs are wrong" popular theory.
Personally I don't agree to stay in a marriage for the children. Couples can still divorce and be great parents.. It has been proven. It is just conventional thinking that we need to stay in a "fake marriage" to have a complete family in order for the kids to be happy.
As for parents.. yes, they may not understand but we don't have to tell them the real reasons for the divorce.. and they will learn to accept it after certain time.
I don't know what other reasons TS has for not divorcing.. but if children is the consideration - it can be better managed..
Note: I am divorced with three children. And I share custody with my ex-wife although I have care and control.. and she is very much involved in their upbringing. I gave her very liberal access to the children. Other than not staying with us - she has virtually unlimited access to the children.
Yes, definitely the children are affected - especially in the early days. But the earlier it is made known to them the better - meaning they have more time to recover. And the younger the children when you divorced, the easier for them to recover. You will have more hell if they are in their early teens. You don't want to divorce 15 years later.. I don't think your children will appreciate it - as much as you think it is "good" for them to stay in the marriage for their sake.
As for parents.. yes, they may not understand but we don't have to tell them the real reasons for the divorce.. and they will learn to accept it after certain time.
I don't know what other reasons TS has for not divorcing.. but if children is the consideration - it can be better managed..
Note: I am divorced with three children. And I share custody with my ex-wife although I have care and control.. and she is very much involved in their upbringing. I gave her very liberal access to the children. Other than not staying with us - she has virtually unlimited access to the children.
Yes, definitely the children are affected - especially in the early days. But the earlier it is made known to them the better - meaning they have more time to recover. And the younger the children when you divorced, the easier for them to recover. You will have more hell if they are in their early teens. You don't want to divorce 15 years later.. I don't think your children will appreciate it - as much as you think it is "good" for them to stay in the marriage for their sake.
miloice
Well-Known Member
Frankly, many men avoid divorce more for selfish reasons to avoid paying maintenance as required by Women's Charter. Something conveniently not mentioned by those involved mostly. Not entirely the reason but definitely one key factor.
The 'noble' ones are normally the popular convenient excuses that remain unvalidated. We tend to want to picture ourselves as blameless victims of the situation.
The 'noble' ones are normally the popular convenient excuses that remain unvalidated. We tend to want to picture ourselves as blameless victims of the situation.
Milo
My conclusion that I despise him is not clouded by emotion leh. Even when I calm down, I still despise him for being not truthful to the wife, for making decision for the wife thinking she will be happy to have such a husband who eats outside and still remains in the marriage for whatever reasons thinking she and many others will be happy. In fact, I am v calm, I know I have to fight for myself not wait to be a miserable wife like what junkie claims, not wait for a scumbag husband to dictate my life. Likewise, I doubt his wife would like him to dicate his life.
You sound calm so you mean you admire him ah?
Why not be more truthful? Why the wife's life must be decided by the deceitful husband? Why can't the wife take action, must wait for the consequences from the husband(say few years later, when the kids grow up)? Did he give the wife a choice? But he has his plan to look for his own happiness in another woman.
He mentioned incidents that the wife is no good. Come on lah, wake up, when he is so "truly in love" with another person, he will see the other person as better than the wife so most of the time he will see only her bad sides but blind to the times when she is good. Blind to everyday practicality of life that may have driven the wife to be what she is now compared to his ideal wife that he married.
My conclusion that I despise him is not clouded by emotion leh. Even when I calm down, I still despise him for being not truthful to the wife, for making decision for the wife thinking she will be happy to have such a husband who eats outside and still remains in the marriage for whatever reasons thinking she and many others will be happy. In fact, I am v calm, I know I have to fight for myself not wait to be a miserable wife like what junkie claims, not wait for a scumbag husband to dictate my life. Likewise, I doubt his wife would like him to dicate his life.
You sound calm so you mean you admire him ah?
Why not be more truthful? Why the wife's life must be decided by the deceitful husband? Why can't the wife take action, must wait for the consequences from the husband(say few years later, when the kids grow up)? Did he give the wife a choice? But he has his plan to look for his own happiness in another woman.
He mentioned incidents that the wife is no good. Come on lah, wake up, when he is so "truly in love" with another person, he will see the other person as better than the wife so most of the time he will see only her bad sides but blind to the times when she is good. Blind to everyday practicality of life that may have driven the wife to be what she is now compared to his ideal wife that he married.
Same like I am entitled to comemnt in forum, I am entitled to despise, correct>
Same like he is free to listen to whatever comment he likes, be disgusted with whatever comment he does not like, or filtered those he does not want to hear, so he does not need to be bothered by my despise at him, so I don't see any issue why I can't view my despise? So despise or not is just one opinion just like any other comemnt. Why you so emotinally upset by my choice of word?
Milo, you are v strange leh. Be more truthful, why so fake?
Same like he is free to listen to whatever comment he likes, be disgusted with whatever comment he does not like, or filtered those he does not want to hear, so he does not need to be bothered by my despise at him, so I don't see any issue why I can't view my despise? So despise or not is just one opinion just like any other comemnt. Why you so emotinally upset by my choice of word?
Milo, you are v strange leh. Be more truthful, why so fake?
miloice
Well-Known Member
If you are honest with yourself, you know you do not have the complete information about his context to make a judgement. This is as true as it is. Once again, u made more ridiculous judgements. lolz
"You sound calm so you mean you admire him ah?"
"Milo, you are v strange leh. Be more truthful, why so fake?"
You have problems discussing on issues as it is without jumping to your own personal assumptions that is unjustified. Why would I admire TS? Such judgements are pretty shallow and you know it. Yet, you would insist the need to make them. What's there to discuss? This isn't a discussion when you don't talk on the points but make personal judgements with your own imaginations. Practice right listening... its a skill to listen to the information without the need to personally getting involved in it. listening means hearing without any interference of your thoughts. It helps you get as much factual information as possible without being clouded by personal opinions. We will have our views, how much we pollute the information will depend on how well the individual can really listen. Its not the choice of words. Its the entire thought process... the inability to refrain from mixing emotions in a discussion. I repeat, there is absolutely no discussion if everyone is just pushing across their own emotions. There is no basis for discussion.
"You sound calm so you mean you admire him ah?"
"Milo, you are v strange leh. Be more truthful, why so fake?"
You have problems discussing on issues as it is without jumping to your own personal assumptions that is unjustified. Why would I admire TS? Such judgements are pretty shallow and you know it. Yet, you would insist the need to make them. What's there to discuss? This isn't a discussion when you don't talk on the points but make personal judgements with your own imaginations. Practice right listening... its a skill to listen to the information without the need to personally getting involved in it. listening means hearing without any interference of your thoughts. It helps you get as much factual information as possible without being clouded by personal opinions. We will have our views, how much we pollute the information will depend on how well the individual can really listen. Its not the choice of words. Its the entire thought process... the inability to refrain from mixing emotions in a discussion. I repeat, there is absolutely no discussion if everyone is just pushing across their own emotions. There is no basis for discussion.
I do not need complete info to make judgement that I despise him. By assuming he is right is in his decision to live 2 lives, he is dictating the future that his wife will face. When his kids do not need the so called "complete family" and when his parents are not around, his wife will be dumped by him, the result of ignorant bliss. Otherwise you think he will stay with his wife until death do them apart? She will sure face this when he is free to dump her. Is it fair to her? Even with more info such as he has no choice, blah blah blah, for the good for so and so, you will respect him?
So with or without complete info, is this right to a person?
A fact is a fact. A fact that will invite people's despise is a fact, do not to hide nobly to say he has his reasons for so doing.
Sorry again, you will say I am emotional. I am not being emotional, I am being factual and true to myself, not being fakingly noble,
So with or without complete info, is this right to a person?
A fact is a fact. A fact that will invite people's despise is a fact, do not to hide nobly to say he has his reasons for so doing.
Sorry again, you will say I am emotional. I am not being emotional, I am being factual and true to myself, not being fakingly noble,
miloice
Well-Known Member
u can find me strange... but it has nothing to do with the discussion. Is this a discussion or a rant for you? Figure that before coming back with more of your emotional rants.
Being emotional doesn't excuse the need to think with the brain. At the end of the day, we talk sense, not shoot at one another with our mood swings. There is no basis to discuss when you are just having emotional outburst. The response will be just... SO WHAT. Where is the relevance to the discussion?
Being emotional doesn't excuse the need to think with the brain. At the end of the day, we talk sense, not shoot at one another with our mood swings. There is no basis to discuss when you are just having emotional outburst. The response will be just... SO WHAT. Where is the relevance to the discussion?
miloice
Well-Known Member
Another point, this was the context.
"Humans are all emotional, for sure. But we can rationalize things. At the end of the day, you would want to move on. Do we progress thinking we should just bash everyone cos we are hurt? Not quite right? We draw the right lessons only after we are able to rationalize and make sense of it all. The worry here is many people do not pick up the lessons in life if we only see ourselves as victims of the situation and others as villians and aggressors."
Its clearly pointing out that we should rationalize our thoughts. Your attempt to change the context reflects about your motive.
Next moment in your 2:21 post you said "Humans are all emotional, for sure". So what's wrong with being emotional?
Is this the normal manner you interact? Honestly, its something for you to think about.
"Humans are all emotional, for sure. But we can rationalize things. At the end of the day, you would want to move on. Do we progress thinking we should just bash everyone cos we are hurt? Not quite right? We draw the right lessons only after we are able to rationalize and make sense of it all. The worry here is many people do not pick up the lessons in life if we only see ourselves as victims of the situation and others as villians and aggressors."
Its clearly pointing out that we should rationalize our thoughts. Your attempt to change the context reflects about your motive.
Next moment in your 2:21 post you said "Humans are all emotional, for sure". So what's wrong with being emotional?
Is this the normal manner you interact? Honestly, its something for you to think about.
TS is seeking for opinion. I wrote my opinion that I despise such deceit. It is up to him to accept or reject. Why you get so emotionally worked up must charge at me for my opinion?
Ok, cannot voice negative/unkind opinion is it?
Then you might as well just advise him on his last question "Lastly, if there is a place where we can go off together to enjoy each other's company, not the sexual nature, but the romantic type like watching sunsets, holding hands, etc, please do advise me. Do PM me if it is not convenient to disclose the place or location, as it could be in Singapore or nearby countries."
Ok, cannot voice negative/unkind opinion is it?
Then you might as well just advise him on his last question "Lastly, if there is a place where we can go off together to enjoy each other's company, not the sexual nature, but the romantic type like watching sunsets, holding hands, etc, please do advise me. Do PM me if it is not convenient to disclose the place or location, as it could be in Singapore or nearby countries."
miloice
Well-Known Member
"You sound calm so you mean you admire him ah?"
"Why you get so emotionally worked up must charge at me for my opinion?"
make up your mind. Am I calm or worked up.
Let me point out..."Sorry to all about the part of fighting, maybe "exchange" should be the more appropriate words. It's in me I dislike fighting, so all argument sounds to me like fighiting leh."
Its probably why u r making it a personal fight instead of an exchange. Your actions contradict your words. For someone that dislikes conflict, to pass personal opinions instead of focusing on the facts. I would agree with you when you point out facts and question TS if its the most appropriate action. To just simply labeling him, that's not factual. The basis of any conflict management is to bring the discussion back on the facts and refrain from attaching emotional judgements to it. If you need time-out to sort out the thoughts, do it. Instead of replying immediately with something in attempt to 'win', its really working against your stand in this thread.
I rest my case. There is really no basis for further discussions.
"Why you get so emotionally worked up must charge at me for my opinion?"
make up your mind. Am I calm or worked up.
Let me point out..."Sorry to all about the part of fighting, maybe "exchange" should be the more appropriate words. It's in me I dislike fighting, so all argument sounds to me like fighiting leh."
Its probably why u r making it a personal fight instead of an exchange. Your actions contradict your words. For someone that dislikes conflict, to pass personal opinions instead of focusing on the facts. I would agree with you when you point out facts and question TS if its the most appropriate action. To just simply labeling him, that's not factual. The basis of any conflict management is to bring the discussion back on the facts and refrain from attaching emotional judgements to it. If you need time-out to sort out the thoughts, do it. Instead of replying immediately with something in attempt to 'win', its really working against your stand in this thread.
I rest my case. There is really no basis for further discussions.
You claim I am not calm, so imply you are v calm lor. So I am forced to agree with you, if not I got bombarded by you again. But hor, seriously man, you are v emotional leh.
Have a life lah, why get worked out with my opinion posed to TS. It is just my opinion, it is not even a judgement. And it is not even targetted at you.
You were the first to quickly charge at me with you "SO WHAT?" at 10:46 post. Isn't "SO WHAT" emotional too?
Tiring lah, why argue with you since 10+ am. OK, I admit I am not as good a debater as you ok?
Forummers in this forum really like to fight. Sorry Milo if you deem this is a emotionally charged conclusion.
Have a life lah, why get worked out with my opinion posed to TS. It is just my opinion, it is not even a judgement. And it is not even targetted at you.
You were the first to quickly charge at me with you "SO WHAT?" at 10:46 post. Isn't "SO WHAT" emotional too?
Tiring lah, why argue with you since 10+ am. OK, I admit I am not as good a debater as you ok?
Forummers in this forum really like to fight. Sorry Milo if you deem this is a emotionally charged conclusion.
Thanks for all your feedback and I am sorry for causing any arguments among fellow forumers due to my post.
I would like to add that I will never leave my wife in poverty and if there is ever a day I need to leave, and I would make sure she is comfortable.
We have undergone counselling by friends and even try to work out our problems, but nothing has changed much. It comes down very much to the character of my wife, as she comes from a family which runs a business, while for myself, I come from a normal family where my dad works as a clerk in a stat board(retired). Likewise, my partner also had tried to communicate her problems with her husband, but it only escalated into heated quarrels as he has a bad temper and is dominantly male chauvinst.
I am in my 40s and she is approaching her 40s too. We are not in a situation where a single guy/girl falls for a married partner. It is just that, midway on this life's journey, we happen to find the other half that we thought never existed, and there are many areas of similarity in the way we understand and approach things in life which is what binds us together.
I may be a dreamer, but somehow, I am really tired of the toll society places on us...from the day we are born, we need to study hard, get into good schools, have a successful career, find a good wife, get married, have kids, kids do well, own a car and condo, etc. Every year during Chinese New Year or gatherings, our converational topics among friends revolve around such topics right?
On a quiet night, I would think to myself, is there ever one who is willing to risks all to pursue the love that eluded him for so long? I may be this person living in my own dream world, because, as many fellow forumers say, it will come to no good ending and the damage done to both families is unimaginable. But then again, you only live once, and when the day comes to the end of my life, I may look back at this with the greatest of regret.
Have a read at this article :
http://www.inspirationandchai.com/Regrets-of-the-Dying.html
Regards,
Ant
I would like to add that I will never leave my wife in poverty and if there is ever a day I need to leave, and I would make sure she is comfortable.
We have undergone counselling by friends and even try to work out our problems, but nothing has changed much. It comes down very much to the character of my wife, as she comes from a family which runs a business, while for myself, I come from a normal family where my dad works as a clerk in a stat board(retired). Likewise, my partner also had tried to communicate her problems with her husband, but it only escalated into heated quarrels as he has a bad temper and is dominantly male chauvinst.
I am in my 40s and she is approaching her 40s too. We are not in a situation where a single guy/girl falls for a married partner. It is just that, midway on this life's journey, we happen to find the other half that we thought never existed, and there are many areas of similarity in the way we understand and approach things in life which is what binds us together.
I may be a dreamer, but somehow, I am really tired of the toll society places on us...from the day we are born, we need to study hard, get into good schools, have a successful career, find a good wife, get married, have kids, kids do well, own a car and condo, etc. Every year during Chinese New Year or gatherings, our converational topics among friends revolve around such topics right?
On a quiet night, I would think to myself, is there ever one who is willing to risks all to pursue the love that eluded him for so long? I may be this person living in my own dream world, because, as many fellow forumers say, it will come to no good ending and the damage done to both families is unimaginable. But then again, you only live once, and when the day comes to the end of my life, I may look back at this with the greatest of regret.
Have a read at this article :
http://www.inspirationandchai.com/Regrets-of-the-Dying.html
Regards,
Ant
miloice
Well-Known Member
Hi Anthony, it normal to have differing opinions. The exchange is still good despite personal judgements. You expect that anyway.
Morals aside, since you have already decided on the path, you must be realistic about the possible outcome. How is your bond with your children? How much do they understand about their mother and your situation? If their understanding is important to you, then you are threading on risky grounds. You have to be willing to forgo all these if you are discovered.
While you lament about the toll society places on us, have you question why you are conforming to those in the 1st place. CNY can be a very heart warming bonding where we focus on kinship and appreciating our family. It need not be about achievements and expectations. Yes, we probably will still engage in such trash talk with relatives, but I always look forward to the gatherings, bonding with the folks. We create the value and meaning ourselves instead of expecting something from it. We can be proactive about it when we empower ourselves to make the change.
If you are a dreamer, make it a reality.
Morals aside, since you have already decided on the path, you must be realistic about the possible outcome. How is your bond with your children? How much do they understand about their mother and your situation? If their understanding is important to you, then you are threading on risky grounds. You have to be willing to forgo all these if you are discovered.
While you lament about the toll society places on us, have you question why you are conforming to those in the 1st place. CNY can be a very heart warming bonding where we focus on kinship and appreciating our family. It need not be about achievements and expectations. Yes, we probably will still engage in such trash talk with relatives, but I always look forward to the gatherings, bonding with the folks. We create the value and meaning ourselves instead of expecting something from it. We can be proactive about it when we empower ourselves to make the change.
If you are a dreamer, make it a reality.
Hi Jenny and Milo,
I appreciate both your advice and intent, but please do not take it too personal on the feedback. I am already very appreciative that many have come forward to voice out their opinion, which if I had not come to this forum, I would be struggling within myself with nowhere to turn to.
With all the feedback, I guess it is all up to me to make decisions that will affect me in the near future...and perhaps, maybe I will update all to say maybe it is true, the worst has happened, two broken families etc, or maybe, I am glad I pursued my own happiness and everything turns out fine...no one knows...
But for the time being, I will just live one day at a time for the moment, treasuring every moment that I am able to be with her company...
Regards,
Ant
I appreciate both your advice and intent, but please do not take it too personal on the feedback. I am already very appreciative that many have come forward to voice out their opinion, which if I had not come to this forum, I would be struggling within myself with nowhere to turn to.
With all the feedback, I guess it is all up to me to make decisions that will affect me in the near future...and perhaps, maybe I will update all to say maybe it is true, the worst has happened, two broken families etc, or maybe, I am glad I pursued my own happiness and everything turns out fine...no one knows...
But for the time being, I will just live one day at a time for the moment, treasuring every moment that I am able to be with her company...
Regards,
Ant