Dishonest Housing Agent

[kimmies]

anyone has any bad experience with their housing agent? I have just found out something shocking about mine today.

When we bought our resale HDB flat, it was transacted at $405k, $4k above valuation. By right we are to pay $4k commission to agent and $4k to seller for difference in valuation.

But, our agent told us that he was also acting as agent for the seller which we believed as the seller had no agent. He said instead of paying the $4k valuation diff to the seller, since the seller had to pay them commission anyways, then we just pay the $4k directly to them instead, total of $8k. On the HDB form, it was written that the house is transacted at $401k. To us, it didn't really make any difference, because we know we just have to pay $8k cash, doesn't matter who we pay it to.

However, today, I spoke to the seller directly and found out she had agreed to sell the house at $401k, not $405k. The agent had intentionally lied to us so he could get the difference in cash. In addition, she was already giving the agent an ang bao of $4k at their request!!

The thing that really p*sses me off is, the agent made it look like he had to fight real hard to get the house for us, but really he was trying to push for the seller to pay him the extra $4k plus our additional $8k would fetch him a total of $12k! And, he didn't even turn up for our 2nd appointment with HDB today!

I am so frustrated by what has happened. It is so dishonest!

 

[demi]

Hi Ong, if there's no written agreement on the $4k cash topup, you are not bound to pay anyone, at all.

If you're the buyer, the standard commission buyer pays is only 1%, not 2%. The seller for the house pays 2%.

What this agent has done is to help the seller get another $4k from you, for his side of the payment.

So to put it in another way, they're making you pay 2% then the seller pay 1% only. But the agent is actually not gaining any extra money from it.

Please complain to this agent's parent company, hopefully they'll do something. I think it's actually fraud, people lose liscense over this kinda thing. If you pay already, then too bad, the most you can do is complain. I don't think you can get your $4k back.

 

[onzz]

Housing agents can be quite tricky. I doubt their parent co (eg: ERA, etc) will take a stand agst them unless its clear-cut case of fraud.

Demi, for a flat of $400k +/-, the commission is normally only 1% for the seller, 2% applies more to smaller flats with smaller values.

Kimmies, can u tell us what is on paper? what kind of commission agreements, declared value to hdb, etc.

Word of caution: never pay the agent any commission until the transaction is completed - they will agree to it, they have no choice.

 

[onzz]

OIC, declared to HDB $401k.

Did u sign a commission agreement to pay the agent $8k? Most likely he has made u done that. If the seller can co-oporate with u to testify agst the agent, u can try filing in small claims court to get back the $4k from the agent(cost $50, i think), your ground is this is meant to be pyt o/b of seller, but seller is already separately paying him $4k, though in the form of ang pow, is actually seller commission!

U can get the seller to co-operate with u by offering to perhaps split half of the $4k should u successfully claim back the money. Such agent should be punished. Imagine if u succeed, call SPH, get the story publish, whole Singapore will benefit!

 

[yuki_ko]

Hi Kimmies

The above valuation shld be paid to HDB... not to the owner direct. HDB will arrange to pay to the owner... The selling price of $405k shld be made known the HDB and the commission is also based on that... which means u shld pay $4k to HDB & $4K to the agent lor.

Some more the agent supposed to follow you all during yr 2nd appointment also wat. S/He is paid to go through the whole process and not run away half way.... this is not right.

You shld complain to the small claim court. Did you get a receipt from the agent stating the amount you have paid to them? If not, it would be difficult to prove that you have actually paid them $8k.

 

[scrubbed]

Hi,
Actually, I think even if you dun have a receipt from the agent, itz still ok as long as you paid using cash or bank transfer. As long as the money is traceable (i.e. from you to the agent), then I guess itz proof enuff that you'd paid the agent that amt.

 

[kimmies]

Hi all, thanks so much for your advice.

The good thing, neither the seller or us has paid the commission yet.

We are very sure the seller is not in cahoots with the agent to try and "shift" the extra 1% onto us. In fact, she did not even appoint them as the agent. It was my agent who demanded an "ang pao" from her as compensation for helping her find a buyer and also "begging" us to let them stay for 2 months while the seller find another place.

The thing that I am most p*ssed with is with myself. Usually for small things so careful about signing. Make 1 million photocopies and keep in the drawer. But where this was concerned, we were just signing our life away. Once we signed, the agent "chased" us home to say, he will bring all the documentation and try and close the deal with the seller. So, we were moronic enough not to remember what we signed.

When we asked the seller today, she said she remembers being ask to sign something which said she was to pay them 1%.

You know, it is quite heartless. The seller is a "hardship" case. Widow, has 3 children and is downgrading to see children through school and they do this kind of thing.

Yuki, I didn't know the difference in valuation is supposed to be paid to HDB!! If we had known, we would have smelt a dam big rat. I hate it that we were so ignorant then.

Anyways, we conspired with our seller. If the agent calls her to collect cheque for commission, then we will go down as well and confront them together. From our end, we will only pau $4k. For the seller, if she cannot get out of paying the $4k, then we will split this with her.

But, the 4 threatening methods are:

- Go down to the company to complain
- Threaten with Polic
- Threaten with lawyer
- Threaten with small claims (which I learn from you guys..)

 

[demi]

Thanks onzz, another thing learnt from this forum!

Kym, I'm so glad you and the seller haven't paid up yet. What kind of agent is this, never explain everything properly to you guys?

I'm currently in the process of buying a resale house now, my agent explain all the procedures and give us back photocopies of all documents that we signed very promptly. Please at least demand for photocopies of all documents that you signed!

Ok from what I know, it's proper and standard for both sides to pay the agent at the % agreed. This practise is not wrong, and I think it's proper for the seller and your side to give $4k each to the agent, assuming you both signed at 1% commission.

For your side, you don't pay any commission until the flat key is formally hand over to you hor! Wait the widow cannot find a new place to live in for a year then how? The agent has to settle this kind of problems for you! This is his job to make the transaction smooth for you, that's what you are paying him commission to do. Else he expect $4k just to file some papers meh.

The seller side can pay him first if the bank loan is approved and she has got her $401k already. Only when she get the money then she pay him.

Also, if you didn't sign any papers to pay $405k, then you will just insist on paying $401k. You don't need to top up $4k cash to the seller.

Don't be afraid if he threaten to stop the sales proceedings or to sue you or such nonsense. He don't have grounds, unless you signed anything, of course. If he stop the sales proceedings or he stop working for you guys, he don't get commission lor, simple. If you don't work, you don't get paid.

Don't go and show face to him first, get all the documents and study them first. Everything must talk nicely, don't be nasty first. Try to resolve peacefully, and you also don't go and threaten to complain first.

 

[yuki_ko]

Hi Kym

Luckily u pple have not paid yet... but take this as a lesson lor... make sure that all the things u sign are from HDB at least lah...

It's common to get confused and sign everything. I am like u... not even sure wat I sign for but my hubby is a detail person... so he will make sure he knows wat's every document for before he signed and we made the agent send the photocopied document to us immediately after... but quite lucky also, we have a honest agent lah.. but they will definitely chase u to sign the papers coz they wanna earn their commission mah.

I understand buyer pays 1% and seller pays 2% but not too sure if yr agent is not seller designated agent, does the seller still needs to pay or not. I can check wif my agent friend if u need....

Based on yr scenario... m quite sure that the agent probably made u sign $401 instead of $405... so u pay lessor commission to him also...

Like wat Demi said also try to resolve the case peacefully... frankly, u dunno wat kind of agent u dealing wif and u do not want him to disturb yr hse after u move in, rite? so better try to resolve amicably.

 

[onzz]

Hi Kimmies,

The threatening methods r of little use, the agents r experienced enough to know that police won't help u, his company won't help u, lawyers r too expensive... unless u can prove fraud... but i dun believe the agent is dumb enough to leave such evidences.

No worries though, since both u and seller hv not paid comm. Dun blame yourself for the carelessness, most of the time the agent will talk nicely to u first, then last minute pull out a stack of documents to sign, and u get caught unaware, but under that circumstances take the risk n sign it.

TAKE NOTE that as far as HDB is concerned, it is illegal to declare $401k when the actual selling price is $405k. The agent will exploit this ambiguity to scare u. BE CAREFUL about "if the seller cannot get out of paying $4k, we will help to pay $2k" - wait u end up paying $4k+$4k+$2k !

Let me now play the devil. I am pretty sure that the agent has arranged the paperwork this way:

Sale Price - $401k
Seller Comm - 1%, Buyer Comm - 2% (or vice versa)

On paper u lose. How are u going to dispute something that u have signed? Hehe

 

[onzz]

Btw, dun ever tell HDB the transacted price s/be $405k !

 

[hice]

Hi onzz,

I was wondering y cant they tell HDB the transacted price s/be $405k?

I do know it's illegal to report a higher price to get a higher bank loan. But reporting a lower price doesn't do anyone good except the agent in this case? Mind explaining further?

 

[onzz]

Hui,

Under-declaration means lower stamp duty. Inland Revenue will come after you.

If seller is paying resale levy its also lower.

For cases where seller sell at loss, all the proceeds might have to go back to cpf, so under-declaring becomes a means for seller to take out cash.

If seller is bankrupt, all proceeds go to Official Assignee for distribution. Under-declaration again enables seller to take out money secretly.

As u can see there r multitude of reasons, therefore HDB specifically warns of its illegality, and i'm not sure what they'll do if they get to know it.

 

[hice]

Oh I see...

Anyway, in this case, it's never their intention to under-declare the purchase price...

These agents are really evil man.. Trying to squeeze $ out of ppl...

 

[vone]

wah onzz, i nvr knew tat under declaration can hv such a big ripple effect. oh man!! tks 4 informing us.

hui, i agree wif u. i've met some agents like tat when i was buying my flat. wah, they can promise u d sky b4 u buy fr them. after u cfmed ur purchase, they dun even bothered 2 turn up 4 d 2nd appt. sigh... luckily mine is not like tat. if not, i wld b veri disappointed.

 

[onzz]

It can be tempting sometimes, especially desperate seller often willing to let go at lower price if buyer willing to under-declare (so that they get more cash!).

But b4 u even put your deposit, check that seller is not bankrupt (the real estate agent can do this check at his company quite cheaply). Otherwise u might have problem getting back whatever deposit u paid !

These days agent's standard commission agreement requires commission pyt upon 1st appt. Always change it to "upon completion".

Lastly, to sellers, NEVER NEVER sign sole agency agreement with agent.

 

[hice]

I somehow think housing agents are like insurance agents.. once u sign the papers and paid up, they disappear.. lolz..

Btw, onzz, do buyer have to pay commission to the agent when it's the seller who sells the flat thru the agent?

 

[onzz]

normally yes. the agent will make u sign the commission agreement b4 he submit the sale to hdb. of course u can discuss n bargain the commission with him b4 u agree to purchase.

 

[onzz]

There is "market norm" but no such thing as "must or must not", can bargain, case by case. If i remember correctly, buyer dun pay comm 4 private pty, b'coz the 1-2% seller pay is already a big value!

 

[joellez]

I'm having some problems with purchasing a resale flat too. To cut the long story short, my first appointment was delayed because we found out that seller was bankrupt, and had another housing commitment to finalise before he can sell this house. Now we find out that seller is divorced from wife and will have to engage private lawyer to handle their sale.

What I'm really unhappy about is that it seems information is being withheld everywhere - seller's agent claims seller didn't disclose bankruptcy & divorce beforehand; and my (buyer's) agent says that she isn't told by the seller's agent. This lack of transparency has caused delays & put us at a potential financial risk.

Is it the responsibility of seller's and buyer's agent to check the background of the seller, in terms of financial status, marital status, and other issues affecting estate transaction ? And do they have the resources to do so?

 

[hice]

-Deleted-
Double post

 

[onzz]

joelle,

I presume u hv exercised the options n paid the deposit(how much?), also paid the submission fee of $80, possibly hdb valuer's fee of $176.

There r 2 big qn here.

1)DOES THE SELLER HAS RIGHT TO SELL THE HOUSE? If his divorced is not finalised, he cannot sell the house. If his divorce is finalised, he must have a COURT ORDER that says how the house is to be sold, he must also have the DECREE NISI and DECREE NISI ABSOLUTE to prove that the divorce is formalized.

2)MUST HAVE A CONSENT LETTER FROM OFFICIAL ASSIGNEE (OA) - to be submitted together with the resale application by the agent. B'coz he is in bankruptcy, his assets is under the charge of the OA.

Bankruptcy is not that big an issue, the main issue is the 1st one. Get the agent to find out immediately.

Its your own responsibility to find out the seller's status, although the agents earn the money. SHIT rite !

 

[demi]

Hi onzz, I need to enquire as I'm going to sell off my current flat soon. A few agents are pressurising me to sign an exclusive, what are the pros and cons?

Can I bargain on the commission if I sign an exlcusive, like instead of paying 2% I pay 1.5% instead?

For now, I'm putting all the agents off by saying I need to get the 1st appt for the one I'm buying first, before committing to selling. Is this the correct step? It's a 3 room HDB flat to sell. Thanks in advance.

 

[handydog]

I'm currently selling my flat thru'agent. It's true u must be careful in choosing agent. Initially we wanted to sell it ourselves, we have agent to do paperwork at a cheap fee (DIY) which we use when buying our flat. But then we realised so much work in getting buyer, not enough network for us to reach out to them. Moreover, mine is a new town..too competitive. So my current agent came and advised us on the mkt analysis and gave us his recommendation on selling our flat. After conversation with him, we felt we could entrust him with our sale. We sat down and talk from 8 - 11+. We also talked to another agent, but the response in selling our flat was very cold, especially in the price that we are asking.

We offered him 1% commission if he sells the flat by end of the year and 2% after. So far, he kept to his promise to bring in buyers to view our flat. We observes the way he promotes our flat, we are satisfied. We have seen many agents who just walk u rm 2 rm and do no promotion. So far so good for the agent. But we are still waiting for the right buyer...hopefully soon. We too sign the exclusive contract...seems ok.

Make sure when u find the right buyer, ask yr agent to qualify the buyer first. Never use propnex..not good reputation. Some ERA are part-timers. Use agents that are CEHA, accredited agents and those that are full time. Never try to do cash back. It is illegal! There is a recent case, so don't risk it. Good agents won't want to do it.

Actually once u have exercise yr option, u are in contract with the seller. U can start selling yr flat, don't have to wait till 1st oppointment. Hope this helps

 

[onzz]

handydog,
Is it ok for me to ask, how many weeks have the agent been mktg your flat? how many viewings have taken place on every weekend? how long is the period of "exclusivity" that u signed? how many "reasonable offer" have u received so far?

demi,
will answer u shortly.

 

[handydog]

Just over a wk+. 2 viewers on wed. He put up ad on Sat. So far no offers, like I say I live in new town, and many sellers in the mkt, buyers are really taking their time to shop around. Exclusive period is 3 mths. We arrange that he can bring viewers on Tue-Thur and Sun.

 

[joellez]

Hi onzz

Yes we paid some fees but luckily they were still relatively small amounts:
Deposit $50
Valuer's around $170
HDB Caveat fee around $100+ (I think)

1) I don't know if divorce is finalised. I THINK it is because on our first appt, HDB has allowed them to sell, but required that they appoint a lawyer in time for 2nd appt.

2) The issues with bankruptcy (OA) has been settled

I agree, it really is a sucky situation. Thanks so much for your input! I will ask my agent to find out about their divorce. And also pressure my agent to pressure THEM to get their stuff in order & ON TIME.

Although some money has been sunk (as above), it's still a small amount, compared to the stamp duty & admin fee that we're liable to pay HDB if deal falls through. Not to mention time wasted & big disruption of our marriage plans. Let's hope this worst case scenario doesn't happen!

 

[onzz]

joelle,

1)seems like your seller does have the right to sell, if not u wouldn't even get 1st appt. i think the seller has submitted the said documents already, all these take place b4 u get 1st appt.

2)no worries abt seller having to appt private lawyer. reason is b'coz hdb lawyer normally does not want to get involved in anything more than the the standard buy n sell. divorce case normally involves proceeds distribution between husband(in this case, OA) and wife, so hdb would ask the seller to use his own lawyer.

How long ago was your 1st appt? I don't think yours would be a major problem, but u need to push your agent to push the seller quickly settle his part so that your transaction is not delayed.

 

[kimmies]

onzz.. wah, you like very experienced and you are really giving very good and detailed advice to us all.. thanks!

 

[demi]

For now, the one I'm buying is handled by an OrangeTee agent. The one I'm considering to give the exclusive to sell is a DenisWee agent.

The ERA one who proposed me gave me a very bad impression. Bad presentation, don't know his stuff, when I ask questions, he everything also don't know, and had worked for 1.5 years already! Not acceptable lor.

Is it safer to give the exclusive after the 1st Appt, or now can sign and start selling already? My 1st appt is in mid-Jan 2005.

I'm scared wait commit to sell the flat, then turn out I can't buy due to that guy backing out. Wait I got no house to live.

 

[handydog]

Yr seller cannot back out from the deal, unless he/she wants to be sue. If yr flat is at a gd area, lots of buyers, then no rush for u...unless like mine not many buyers that's why I sell now, my appt also in Jan....

 

[demi]

Now we only sign the option for the new flat. Haven't had 1st appt yet. Am I safe to sell? Does the option bind the seller tight?

 

[handydog]

From wat we heard from agent is that seller has to sell at the agreed amt. Buyer can opt out if the option has not been excercised. But there are still cases whereby seller does back out. If u are still unsure whether yr seller will commit to the sale, then wait lor. If so-suay, then u sign exclusive, there may be some issue with yr agent on yr own sale. Better ask yr agent clearly on all scenarios before u sign exclusive, esp. on yr uncertainty of yr new home sale.

 

[onzz]

Hi Demi,

There is no way your seller can back out, legally.

Normally when HDB set the 1st appt date, things r more or less in order already, unless seller is divorce or bankrupt case, then there might be some delay, if not 8 weeks from 1st appt date, ie mid-March 2005 is the latest completion date. 6 weeks if u take hdb loan.

U should start marketing, coz u dun get buyer immediately. Timing now is good, b'coz many are rushing to meet the 4% cash deadline.

 

[onzz]

Demi,

Sign exclusive only if u are very comfortable with the agent. They'll ask for 3mth exclusive, but sign only 1 month, n offer to review mth to mth. In this way, u are offering them incentive to market exclusively, at the same time u are telling them u tie yourself down 4 one month only, in case the agent dun perform.

 

[onzz]

Demi,

Tomorrow i share with u how i sold my own flat after just 4 advertisements i placed myself.

 

[onzz]

Hi Kimmies,

I'm really no pro, just share what i know, many areas i still dunno, like contra, etc. I'm still a little concerned about your case, pls tread carefully and like demi said, speak nicely, maintain cordial terms with the agent for the time being. He'll still insist that as far as between u and him (agent), u have agreed to pay a total of $405k+$4k, and the seller's $4k is an ang-pow to him for securing the sales, on top of your $409k! He probably had arranged the paperwork signed by u guys to his advantage.

If the paperwork is against you, i foresee 3 possibilities:

Possibility 1) Seller (co-operating with u)insist that between u and her, it is agreed that the selling price shall be $401k, irregardless of the agent misleading u into believing it is $405k. If she can agree to this, it is the best for u.

Possibility 2) Seller (at the instigation of agent) now says that the selling price s/be $405k.

Possibility 3) The agent tells the seller to bluff u that he has agreed not to collect any commission from her. So u still pay $409k. Agent still secretly collect commission from the seller, perhaps a smaller amount.

Before i make more wild guesses, it'll be good that u get hold of the paperwork u have signed from the agent. At least then we have the exact picture.

Hopefully the paperwork does not say clearly that u will be paying a total of $405k + $4k. In that case u just die die insist that the agreed selling price is $401k to your understanding.

 

[onzz]

Demi,

For smaller flats, most agents will ask for 2% due to the smaller value harder to cover advertising costs. The way the agents work is such that, the buyers come not only as direct response to his advertisement, but more often than not, also thru' other agents. When the buyer comes thru' other agents who contact your agent, your agent will have to give up half the commission to that 3rd party agent, we call it co-broke.

Think of this possibility: Say u ask for $190k. Your exclusive agent gets a buyer's offer of $180k. A 3rd pary agent has a buyer's offer of $185k. Do u think your exclusive agent will convey to you the existence of the $185k offer? If he does so, his commission will be halved to $1850, b'coz he has to pay the co-broke agent $1850. He'll be more keen to persuade u to accept $180k, b'coz his commission will be $3600!

Only if u have rejected the $180k for a prolonged period, and your exclusive agent is on the verge of losing your business, then he'll tell u abt the $185k offer by the co-broke agent's buyer. Better to get $1850 than nothing rite!

My point is that having an exclusive agent mktg your property effectively cut u off from the whole market. Everything goes thru' him. He'll try to get his direct buyer(coz' he earns 2%)as far as possible. He'll postpone other agent's buyer as far as possible (coz he has to give up 1%). The agents will never admit this, but u judge for yourself this possibility.

For that reason dun tie yourself down with 3 month exclusive.

I put up my own 3-line ad costing $31.50 per ad on Sat n Sundays only. The next minute 1 have more than 20 agents calling up over the weekend. To all of them i said: We pay 1% commission upon completion of sale, if the buyer comes thru' u. So i set my own commission - 1%. The saving of the other 1% goes to cover my advertising.

The 1st weekend saw 6 viewings. The following Sat was surprisingly quiet, only 1 new viewing n a 2nd viewing from previous week. On that evening sold - just 5k short of my asking price. The next day i continued to receive an avalanche of abt 10 agents calls, many of whom wanted to bring buyers to view - i had to tell them: SOLD.
Btw, prior to this, i tried talking to some agents, most of them told me my price was far from possible!

I suppose i could get a few thousands more if i waited. But me very ching-cai when it comes to buying n selling hse, dunno why, buy furniture i bargain like hell!

So in the end i still sell my hse thru agent, but i pay only 1% comm, my advertising costs me only $150, n i sold my house very quickly. Why? B'coz i have exposure to the whole market.

Of course u need some luck, and it also depends on the attractiveness of your house, the reasonableness of your asking price, etc. Using this method is also very effective in shutting the agent up form trying to persuade me to sign exclusive. They can see that i have taken the trouble to put $1k deposit with SPH, n i'm dead serious abt not signing exclusive.

Dun believe if anyone tells u agents will not help u this way. If they have a buyer, they'll be drooling their way to your hse...

 

[handydog]

Hi Onzz,

Not all agents are blood suckers, it has to depend on the marketability of yr flat. if yr flat is highly dd area, selling yrself is ok, save cost. Of course u too have the risk of buyer backing out, if u are not professionial in this area, may back fire too. Lucky for u that u can hv a smooth sale. Just heard from my agent one of his client also try to sell her flat herself, now back fire because buyer now don wan to excercise option and is dragging the submission..long story. Anyway, if u hv to sell flat yrself, just beware of all procedures.

Demi, always go for recommended agent by friends & families..hope everything goes well with yr buying and selling.

 

[blackforest]

Hi,
I have been trying to sell my HDB from May until now. I have tasked an agent to help me to sell my flat but till date no offer so I have decided to change to another agent (propnex) who claim that he is very familar with my area. He insisted that I must sign an exclusive with him for 3 months before he help me to sell my house. Two weeks have passed and only 1 viewing but no offer. I am so worried I cannot sell the flat by the deadline given by HDB. Looking at the present market rate, I will be making a loss of at least 40 to 50K. Sigh...

 

[handydog]

R u living in a new town area? If so, this is very common. Especially nowadays, many homeowners are dumping their flats at low price, even suffering losses. I believe u can ask HDB for extention if u miss deadline. Heard next yr is gonna be worst for sellers....

 

[onzz]

handydog,

Oh, u have misunderstood me, i do not have such a negative view of agents, and i did not sell my flat myself. I merely placed my own ad, did not sign any exclusive, n sold the house thru' an agent at just 1% commision.

I'm just suggesting to protect yourself by signing a shorter period of exclusive, like 1 mth instead of 3 mths. Upon expiry of 1 mth, u can continue to extend mth to mth if u think the agent is good.

Leave yourself some control, rather than entrusting completely to the agent for 3 mths. It does not hurt the agent at all.

Of course, u need to know what is a reasonable price for your flat, which is now easily available under "Resale Transaction Enquiry" function in HDB website.

"Buyer dun want to exercise option n dragging the submission"? If buyer does not exercise option in 14 days, it automatically expire. Seller can then sell to others.

Of course if u feel that u can trust the agent completely, n would like to save the hassle of dealing with so many agents, its fine to sign on with your trusted agent for whatever period.

 

[kimmies]

Onz... watch this space. I should be able to update you tomorrow.... Wish me luck!

 

[handydog]

True that we all as sellers/buyers need to protect ourselves.. as for the client case, she quite blur lah, let the buyer drag her for 60 days, think she didn't do her homework, tried to save cost and get burn now.

We also try to sell my flat by ourselves, but decide to use agent due to too competive mkt and save our time in answering phonecalls and handling diff agents.

 

[hice]

Wow! This thread has helped me a lot.. I'm now looking ard for flats.. Thanks for all the information given!

 

[kimmies]

All, we had a "showdown" with the 2 agents today, together with the seller.

At the end of the 2 hour "war". The main culprit looks to be actually our agent. His arguement is: Because the seller is only willing to pay 1%, he agreed with the seller that they will quote us $405, and the difference b/w 401 and 405 will makeup his additional 1% + the other 1% from us as his own agent fee.

Altogether, 1% seller, 2% buyer. He said altogether 3% because there is co-broker b/w himself, the other agent, and the first agent who brought us to view the flat. The seller denies all his charges saying that she never discussed about the price 405 with him. At the end, we told the 2 agents that we are not going to pay them, and they can take legal action against us.

In addition, when we ask back from him a copy of the commission papers we signed, the main agent said he will not give us until we have paid him commission.

Throughout the 2 plus hour session, he tried to confuse us with technicalities of co-broking agreements etc. He was very aggresive and hostile towards the seller, because she was fighting her own war.

Good thing was, we brought 3 friends and we warred against them in turns.

Conclusion: The whole deal was not settled, and they claim they will still want to be paid. So, we will see what happens. Of course, in the meantime, we will go to various places to lodge this case.

Very tiring. The agent was totally ridiculous. We were going around in circles. When we brought up the point of the non-disclosure of the 3rd agent, he would say the seller knew of it. The seller would deny, and the agent would point us back to the papers we signed.

We found that we did sign 2 commission papers, 1% buyer, 1% seller. What was more horrific is, after we had signed, they actually added on another agent's name to the paper after we signed and we didn't know about it. This additional name was the 3rd agent.

 

[kimmies]

Oh, and I forgot to add, he told us he did not mention about the 3rd agent because he was afraid we would get confused about co-broking arrangements. what the %^&&(*

 

[handydog]

What a shit agent, must complain to their higher authority on such misconduct...how can just add name in a contact, this is so unethical. If their head office ignores, shd go to CASE to complain on them. Contractually is only 1% buyer 1% seller, who cares who he co-broke with. Transacted price is declared as $401, so yr grounds are covered. These guys are trying to scare u with big words.

 

[kimmies]

HandyDog, I totally agree with you. We were all so shocked. It was so clear to us that it was a shady deal.

The other agent, he just sat in the chair and didn't say a single word. We asked him why he has no opinion. The main agent said "He's not involved."

Involved in what?? You want to earn my commission, and still not involved?

There were so many of us who saw loopholes in his explanation. Whatever it is, the fact that he didn't disclose to us that there was a 3rd agent, the fact that he doctored the commission the papers, the fact that he later refused to give us a copy of the commission papers. The fact that the seller didn't know the house was sold at 405. This all just proves to me he is guilty. And, there is absolutely no reason why the seller would lie. She gets nothing out of this. She doesn't mind paying for the 4k initially even when she found out, she was just indignant and wanted to clarify everything with us. But now, she is totally upset, and wants to pursue it further.

 

[scrubbed]

hi Kym,
I'm no expert but legally, it looks like you've got the upper hand as the paper you'd signed stated 1% seller and 1% buyer. One thing I don't understand though is.. how come you don't have a copy?? You're supposed to keep a copy so that the agent cannot contest the agreement.

As for the cobroking part, it doesn't matter lar.. 1% means 1%. Co-broke is only impt to the agents.. they have to split their commissions lor. To the buyer/seller, it's supposed to be transparent. They're trying to confuse you into paying them the extra commission.

Maybe you should lodge a complaint against him with his company,.. or I wonder if they have this agent association. (?)