not sure if it has been misread in translation, or u're standing up in defence of a man who is not being attacked...
but the way i see it, she's not blaming her husband of the "emotional detachment", but rather it was brought out as a prime REASON for her reaching this stage of decision. after 10yrs of marriage, let alone 20... i think most pple tend to look at themselves, then the relationship... rather than find a single point to blame and bash.
i do find her painting him in a very good light in most aspects, except perhaps this only almost Singular aspect which she holds Vital.
Perhaps her husband is almost similar in attributes to yours... that u may be so fiercely defending him as a victim. i have posted countless times reminding pple that there need not always be a victim, nor an aggressor. a relationship takes Two, and will remain so til it's no longer Two. a marriage is made of Two... most times in our youth, but as we age... the Two may eventually be just One in a relationship, and Two under a roof.
when one reaches a point of Realization, one has to be honest down to the bones... what i have been reading... IS Her Realization, not her complain nor angst Towards her husband. Most of what she shared was for us to understand how she has come to this point of Realization... we should not use that against her. she has as much, shared her struggles within, and the depression she currently faces in Carrying Out what she has been struggling to initiate.
perhaps u should also learn to realise that sometimes, girls do choose to leave the most perfect eligible guy in your eyes. doesn't have to be becos the girls are blind, but rather - the girls know what they want and are willing to forego the safe harbour in search of what they want.
i dun make light of marriage vows, neither do i hold pple to the point that i'd curse them to burn in hell.
when i left my 8k/mth job to start over at 1.2k, the protests i got, the bewilderment, the disapprovals added to an already difficult decision. But make it i must cos i saw a ceilling that was too low for my future... Life certainly comes with no guarantees... and even if it does, the guarantees dun guarantee u a life. some of us are fortunate that all the bad points of our spouse dun even give us cause to think of separating.... some like Danielle has only 1 flaw to deal with, but it's serious enough to cause her depression and come to the state where she's at.
why should u fiercely attempt to save a marriage for One, yet screw Two lives in doing so? If love, happiness and respect are 3 major ingredients and u do not have them or only have small portions of them... what good will come out of trying to make the dish?
Can you please send me your therapist's contact.
I want to know which one said those crappy things about your husband.
Really, I want to ensure my friends are not using him/her as their therapist.
A person in this stage is unable to rationalize properly. I know, I've been there.
Some day, hopefully.. if she is able to walk out of that fog of depression, she will look back on the devastation and the irreversible damages she has done and scream to herself "What have I done !"
That ONE flaw.. to a person with no mental issue is a no big deal. But for a depressed person, is all she needs to descend into more insanity.
Right now, the last thing she needs is having people she talks to add more oil to fire.... that's why I am shock to know her therapist is feeding her ideas her husband is the one who is "damaged". I am in disbelief.
When a person is depressed. He/she is extremely vulnerable to external influence, especially from people who wants to see him/her FAIL.
Clinical depression doesn't happen overnight.
One of the symptoms of clinical depression is promiscuity. Attention of men helps make her feel good about herself.
I don't think her husband is the reason why she become depressed. The trouble started brewing long before cracks starts to appear in her life.
So please, don't try to reason with a clinically depressed person the same way you reason with one without this mental disability.
Powder, if promiscuity is not in your context, try shopaholics, gambling, anything to achieve that fleeting RUSH of feel good emotion.
In another thread under "Confused". This is what she posted "Hi, I need some moral support here. Trying to go through a divorce/separation here. Coping with a clinical depression as well, and my family and friends aren't really able to provide emotional support for my attempts to resolve my marriage, or should I say an empty marriage. "
Now, as much as I concur with your notion of what a honest marriage is about. You can't apply this in Danielle's case.
She is not mentally prepared to throw away her marriage yet.
Have you considered what will happen to a clinically depressed person who goes through divorce, threw away her marital life and hurt many people in the process ..only to find she is not much happier in her restart ?
She may become suicidal.
You smart asses thinks you are giving her moral support.
In her wake are you going to still say she did the right thing ?
I am not mocking her therapist. I am outraged and question the INTEGRITY of this person.
Is that therapist trying to help her get out of depression or is he/she pushing her deeper in so he/she can milk more out of her.
Dear momoftwo, I said I am clinically depressed, yes. But why didn't you ask me details about my condition instead of jumping into wrong conclusion, yet again?
I have been seeing a counsellor off and on for my marital problems. My husband is supposed to come but he frequently rather not. But i still go, and learn a couple of things about how to improve myself such as coping with work stress, time management etc.Â
Lately I complained of feelings of sadness that wont go away, feelings of isolation and a sense of entrapment which seems to close up on me. This was ongoing for 2-3 weeks. My counsellor told me if symptoms like these last more than 2 weeks, it is likely i have clincial depression. She suggested I see a psychiatrist.Â
I told her no. I will go to this private doctor (a GP) I know who used to dispense depression medicine for an in-law once. Please don't ask me who it was and why. I have already told you about my dad. It didn't help you understand me. Further questions on my family or in-laws are plainly intrusive of my privacy.
Anyway I went and he dispensed me the med. it is a two week course of Zoloft. He said mine is mild because i caught it early and so Zoloft is quite suitable because it is light or something. He told me effects may not be immediate but I am to finish the course. I started and after 3 hours of the first pill, all the sadness or whatever depression flew out of the window. Great! This is my second week and a few more days I will be off my med. I did mentioned in an earlier post that my med was working, right? Why wouldn't you read properly?
But my counsellor back at the other practice thinks I neded to look beyond the symptom (a depression) and solve the cause. I knew where those feelings came from. She knew too. It is now up to me to do something about it, failing which I am in danger of slipping into a second depression some time in future. That was what was told to me. It made sense to me. ... (to be cont'd)
(cont'd)Â I am not suicidal or mental, dear madam. Neither do I have mental disability as you claimed. Can you tell from my writings and posts so far that I sound so emotionally unstable i am about to kill myself? Or insane till I can't string two words together? Is any part of which post incoherent or illogical or irrational or incomprehensible to you? I am still functioning busily in my office and I Â do not have any of those problems you said to Powder, otherwise my company will be asking me to take leave, don't you think? I am fully capable of thinking rationally and making decisions without any impairment, one of which will be: after a couple more posts to you, i wont be addressing your posts anymore.
And I can talk suicide if you want. Relax ....... I have no issues there. Also if I were to die because you talk suicide to me, you are not accountable to my parents. You are accountable to them only if I am a juvenile. But i am not a juvenile. I am a fully functional adult.
You are over thinking my clinical depression. I am not a baby or a child that you need to protect or smother. I understand you had post natal blues before, but yours might be very different from mine. As far as i am concerned, there is no fog hanging over me now lol, any feelings of sadness i had had lifted when i started my med, I am certainly not "extremely vulnerable to external influence" like you said. Just look at how I handled Scope Guy. I didn't succumb to any of his theatrics when he hopped over this thread, did I? It didn't bother me one bit, so much for 'external influence' and 'vulnerability', don't you think? I don't see my world as dark or anything. Your depression might have been of a more severe degree.Â Hence you project it onto me.
You really should have just asked me for details instead...... (to be cont'd)
(cont'd)Â And how has promiscuity become a symptom of depression? Please go google check how to identify depression. As far as I know, promiscuity has never been a listed symptom of depression in medicine. (Seriously I am so tempted to lol again now). I know because I checked what I am diagnosed. In fact, technically speaking i am supposed to have 5 out of 9 direct symptoms to be diagnosed with clinical depression, but i had only 1 (prolonged sadness). The rest of my symptoms were circumstantial. The doc still gave me Zoloft after hearing my description. But what the heck, just take la. it's not like it's going to kill me, right? It did help me feel back to normal anw.
I am not promiscuous, for your info, and i do not seek sensual pleasure from my co-workers.Â May I know which of my posts give you such an idea that portrayed me in such a bad light? Are you aware that your remarks are disrespectful and can be considered potentially defamatory?
"Attention from men helps makes her feel good about herself"Â
- Where do you get all this distorted ideas from? Is it your assumptions again?
I really won't care to respond further had I not seen your post to Antxie.
You are aware Antxie has a marital crisis on hand.Â He didn't address you in his post. He addressed me and told me his story, it was meant for my good.Â What you have said to him was just spiteful and insensitive. How could you take his personal situation, post a text full of those remarks at him, purely out of anger because you can't get others to listen to your interpretation of my situation?
You are simply heartless, cruel and incapable of empathising. Please stop doing this to others. Many of us are going through our own life crisis here. We can do better with fewer of folks like yourself.
You asked watching to show you a guy who is capable of an emotional connection to a woman's feeling. I can. I found a few already these last few days of going to on-line forums:
- Someone (guy) from this forum PM me: I have been through .... and I can relate to your issues .... Take care of yourself and I am more than willing to help.
- Powder (guy) posted to me 18 hours ago: danielle, ..... u've been flying and soaring, always mindful to return back to the cage .... Pls soar, your Life awaits ....
- Who? Me? (guy) posted to me 32 hours ago: no problems D ..... Seriously how the heck did you missed it? And another post he wished me the best.
Words like above are words of encouragement. Some of the guys are expressing solidarity with you, understanding your problems or the struggles you are going through. Others use emotive words likeÂ 'I can relate' and 'take care of yourself'. Others use metaphors or personifications 'soar' etc to express themselves: also a form of emotive language.
In another forum, someone (a guy) said this to me: hi Danielle, I just saw your message. Is there anyway that I can assist you? Take care and stay strong.
('Take care and stay strong' are words that speaks not to the brain but speaks to the heart: again emotive language)
Antxie (guy) posted 9 hours ago about his marital crisis. He is baring himself for us to see how much his actions had hurt his marriage. If you can't feel anything when you read it, I don't know how to help you.
I am sure the above are not gay. Some maybe going through crisis, but some others have overcome their crisis and they are here to help.
I told you before, momoftwo, if you were to listen carefully, men can care, empathise and connect emotionally. But the language maybe different to you. I don't need to meet them in personÂ but I can feel they care.Â This is called connecting emotionally with others' feelings. Most men can do that. Those who have difficulty need to do some work. Generally I find most men able to relate adequately in this area.
Also, to correct you when you said my experiences with guys are limited to a few short flings. I said already that while I stayed married, I had more guy friends than girl friends in the past. In fact, we were close friends as well, lasting many years. And yeah, they were emotionally available. Unlike my husband.
"The problem with Danielle is she has limited experience with men on a longer term basis. Every outside FLING/romance she had was short-lived.Â None went past the honeymoon period (except the one with her husband)"
- Please help me out here: are you saying i have to go pass the honeymoon period with more than one man in order to consider not having limited experience with men on a longer basis?
I did suspect you might have issues with your husband, but I didn't voice out. Powder echoed what was on my mind. Perhaps you are trying very hard to believe something about your marriage, and coming here hearing me talk about my issue i am having with my husband shake the very foundation of your belief? You might feel the need to dismiss my problem, so that your belief could be intact? Think about what I say, please. If you have any issues, you can bare your soul here. Others are more than willing to hear you out.
I can't help picturing your hb as a "walking zombie" till u mentioned about his sense of humor, this is one of a attractive traits in a guy. I feel that he is somehow not a calculative, argumentative person, more of a giver.
Guess these are what attracted u to him in the first place,
Perhaps u will want to take a break from him before making a major decision.
When I feel things reach to a dead end, I will choose not to confide to anyone including my mum, my buddies except my gal who will never failed to amuse me with her antics.
There's once that I just packed my bag and checked in a nice hotel to sort out my thoughts. I only bring my gal along.
I don't want any external factors to affect my decisions. Once I decide, I go for it. I break the news after some time and my buddy actually say she doesn't know that I bottom so many things in my heart but we do confide to each other while chilling in a pool, 1-1 session definitely not in a group.
Friends might not empathy with us but I know that they will always be in support. When I just need a drink, somebody for accompany, these are the ones who will always be there.
Danielle, being depressed does not mean you are retarded. There are high functioning depressive people around.
CEOs/VPs of big companies are not immune to depression.
Even doctors themselves are not immune to it.
In fact, they fall in the high risk group. But it does not mean they are no longer functioning like a normal person, or be productive.
Depression typically affects RELATIONSHIP.
I suggest you seek psychiatric help instead of relying on a General Practitioner. GPs can prescribe you meds, but they are not trained to deal in psychological problems.
Even my nurse practitioner is capable of prescribing sertraline. But she is certainly not qualified to help me work through depression.
On-line forums are not good places to seek any form of support. However, if you are here just to get attention from men by playing the victim.. well, that's your prerogative.
If you do your research, promiscuity is listed as a sign/symptom of depressive disorder.
So is blaming their spouse for unhappy past events and their source of unhappiness.
Anyway, it's up to you. Your marriage not mine.
All the best to you and whatever decision for your future.
Can you please provide a link to show promiscuity is a symptom which leads to a diagnosis of clinical depression (clinical depressions essentially means having symptoms like depressed feelings that last more than 2 weeks) ?
It is incorrect to say that depressed people are able to function properly. Highly functioning depressed individuals that you mentioned, if they do exist, are more the exception than the norm. Please read links above for how clinical depressions might affect your daily functioning. In my case, it's an over-hanging sadness and the other feelings I described earlier that weighed me down like a stone. It was uncomfortable, yet I couldn't shake it away. And if you carry a stone all the time, how to be light and happy and function normally?
It is common now in stressful Singapore for many GPs to treat depression. I have friends in medical line who tell me that, and other friends who obtain medical help from GPs for stress-related ailments like tension headache (categorised under mental conditions) Why dont you check around first if what i said is true. If the case presented to the GP is complicated, the doc will refer to a psychiatrist.Â
The GP's clinic i went to, however, is not a ordinary GP clinic. It is also one of the registered satellite clinics under MOH to treat psychological conditions. I knew about it because I brought my said in-law there in the past. MOH wants to make psychological assessments and treatment more widely available to the public, and also to reduce overcrowding in government hospitals for treatments of common psychological ailments such as depression and other stress-related ailments. See link below: http://www.imh.com.sg/clinical/page.aspx?id=688
The medication given to me, Zoloft, is also a valid medication for depression. I was asked to manage my depression by:
- completing the 2-week course of med, do not stop even if symptoms elevated
- see a counsellor (I said I already have one) for supportive treatment.
His treatment method is also consistent with the prescribed modus operandi for treatment of depression. Med plus counselling. Check two links top of page, once again.
I did go back to see my counsellor and she advised me to work on solving the root causes of my depression. She also advised me methods to cope with my depression, one of which is to try to avoid potentially depressing situations like having an argument with my spouse (one major cause of my depression) during my medical treatment of 2 weeks. This is sensible and logical. It's like if you have a sore throat and started anti-biotics, try to abstain from spicy food till your sore throat is over.
In any case, as I said, technically speaking I don't even fit into the 5 out of 9 category as a clear-cut case of clinical depression. If there had been an over-diagnosis, your concerns that I am of an irrational mind to make decisions to leave my husband and that I might become suicidal etc are automatically invalid. Nevertheless, thanks for your concern. But I assured you I am of a very sound mind now.
As i have requested, can you please provide a link to show promiscuity is a symptom which leads to a legit medical practitioner's diagnosis of clinical depression? Thank you.
momoftwo, my lunch meeting just ended not long ago. Got to get back to office now. Regards to the link I requested, it has to be a legit and common practice by medical practitioners and psychiatrists worldwide to list promiscuity as one of the factors present for a diagnosis of a clinical depression. Please reply. Thank you.
I was wondering if your husband could have real friends. He goes to Batam or do a boys'-night-out, are those his "mechanical-outings" that do not involve having to tap into his *gasp* social skills ? These are social activities after all. I have a mental block on how he interacts with the children, I can imagine the love being there, just not how his human skills come out.
I'm not sure if I got this right, I have a hunch that he is very lonely. You put is as, "emotionally absent in his daily emotions". I think you meant to say he is apathetically distracted.(I sound ridiculous myself ?) I think he is emotionally occupied with only himself, not so much with his surroundings.
With autism, a widely recognized disorder, people can empathize. But with your husband's handicap, most people who hear about it the first time, don't know what you're talking about and hence cannot really empathize. At most, the public will nod their heads at psychological disorders like depression. Perhaps they could watch the movie, "Rain Man" and get an idea how communication is like with someone with a disorder......although your husband does not have autism. (can't come up with another movie title at this moment)
Because he is unable to bare himself past acquaintance-level (in order to keep himself at a safe distance), there is no sharing of intimacy. When there is no basic engagement even between friends, then, the friendship will feel unsatisfactory. With partners (husbands/boyfriends) we'd like more than what we get from friends, more intimacy. Danielle's husband is simply inaccessible.
i think of death everyday... becos it is my motivation to live...
today was a bad day, i was kinda paralysed today after reading abt the demise of 2 young boys with a Life ahead of them in the tampines accident. i'm sitting here with my 3yr-old son now... so many thoughts cross my mind... will he go before me? sometimes we become part of the statistics and news we read about... it doesn't always happen to others.
sorry abit off-topic, i dun feel down very often, but today was really bad... All the more we should Live, shouldn't we?
Death is the single most effective life-changing agent. i've embraced it as a fren for over 30yrs....
Off-topic too: Yeah the 2 boys, I felt very sad too. One was still able to move a bit after the hit. If only it was instant for both, it wouldn't so bad. And my heart goes out to the mother. Two at the same time. I cannot imagine how she will cope.
i go into a state where i imagine death as closely as i can... into a state of Nothingness... i go deeper n deeper into this until i am already there... i will start to see loved ones, living or dead... i can feel it, i also feel i'm dead... the feelings get intense, so intense til it builds to a point i just 'awaken' in cold swaet, and i feel like i just reached a stage of rebirth... the strong feeling of Nothingness comes back and just overwhelms me...
tat's the best i can come to describing the Moment. it follows with an overwhelming urgency to see my wife, my kids, call my mum, and i can't wait for the day to begin, for me to Live the new day...
Danielle, Never take life for granted, i have centenarian grandparents but i also have family member who fell sick at young age 48.
Leave if it will make you happier, life is too short to spent another 20 miserable years with someone whom you no longer able to connect or love & thats what my uncle did. No one in the family can empathize his agony initially but after seeing the change and the happier him, we can now understand why he done that.
your link is one of convenience, something to support yourself. u did not read it in entirety, nor did u bother to connect with D, u just zoned in on that word and insists it's her. If u were a doc in a mental institution - u're the doc who insists perfectly healthy pple have mental problems, and u keep them institutionalised to feed them medicine and treat them even if they dun need treatment, nomatter wat they say. u are Not there to listen even for abit. i'm starting to think that u have a mental issue yourself.
u should stop here, go back to her previous posts and do a re-read. your comprehension has been thru coloured glasses. for some reason, u have blocked off most of what she has said, and can only listen to your own voice and reasoning... which is pretty off. it is almost pointless for her to explain further to u, since it basically falls on deaf ears. 'self-diagnosis or self-treatment'?
where's the Fcucking link? This is becoming about u and your ego... no longer abt her. i'm not defending her by the way, she doesn't need anyone to do that so dun try to make that your argument...
i just think u have some serious mental issues. u have poor judgment, poor comprehension, poor ability to relate and i'm Serious and not being spiteful. which part of the world are u at and what are u doing to stay in touch with Reality? let me treat u instead... i think u eventually have to consider seeking professional help cos u're really bad in relating. do your kids ever get a chance to tell u what they like or do u dictate that to them?
u keep insisting she is promiscuous, then u tell Me she dun have to physically fug a guy to be promiscuous... and u try to convince me i made a boo-boo and ask me to be honest abt it.
Then when it comes to linking... u link an article that says "Promiscuous sexual behavior" in a mere mention to back yourself.
so aren't u bullshitting me in the first place? there's also parts of it that mentions loss of interest in sex. and the best u could do is quote a medschool while insisting she seeks specialists??? aren't u self-diagnosing too?
Seriously.... U're Telling me a life's at stake here?
about your husband's deliberate avoidance in sharing, apart from his personality alone, what else do you read from it?
His discomfort is obvious but the reasons behind might not be simply because he is emotionally absent or unable to connect. A connection takes 2 to tango. The accumulated fear of your reactions with his answers could have influenced that behavior. The incompatibility and contrasting expectations comes to mind.
Similarly, you mentioned about your dad's decision to avoid all contacts with you because of your disagreement over defense of someone. Has it occur to you that its more than just a decision to speak up. How it was done has a significant influence on the outcome as well. When you spoke of inability to control how the abusers react and that you only control yourself, it isn't really true. We do have some influence to people around us and its largely how we choose to react and approach the situation.
You have done a lot of self searching to seek happiness, so do you know what you need to be happy? If yes, what support would you require if you are already so sure about your needs and plan. If no, why hasn't it.