Any experienced MOE Teachers arnd to give advice?

miloice

Well-Known Member
Doll,
"Milo, everywhere also got shit bosses or colleagues. They don't only exist in schools. Perhaps the only difference is in the corporate world we can move from company to company easily."

Exactly, I mentioned this earlier. In teaching career, there is a contract bond for the NIE training etc. And the teacher is kind of stuck there regardless. Its definitely easier to jump in the private sector.
 


miloice

Well-Known Member
rains, oh please... this is getting even more RIDICULOUS! Stop trying to dictate things that are not even in your control. You are not the administrator whatsoever. Total bullshit that only MOE teachers can comment. A truly shocking response.

Please reread what I have mentioned before shooting randomly again. Reread everything and think over how you are reacting. Very laughable indeed!

Is this how you would shut down your students? I hope not!
 

hweebs

New Member
okay, maybe i level this a bit. Teaching is not an easy job, though there are also difficult jobs out there. In these days where teachers may have a full load (teach 10 periods out of 12 a day from 7+ to around 2), one has to also be attending to their emails as often as they can. Important msgs, meetings, projects, requirements are often listed there, but if one is teaching and rushing from classroom to classroom, not forgetting that the 2 periods left are just enough to queue up, eat lunch or to be filled up with some level or departmental meeting. Then you have to also do lesson planning, mark your students' work, set questions for tests and exams, be down for NAPFA duty etc, coordinate CCA sessions etc. Teaching is not an easy job. And if you get in after NIE, you can't leave either. You can't trasnfer until 3 years and that is only if it is approved by your P. Having said that, they try to compensate you with $$$ lah.
 

rains

New Member
Milo,

I'm still addressing to you only becos you still sound sane. I don't think I've reacted insanely, like some mad dog has. I am aware of the previous posts you have typed ie. about the plight of your siblings, your sister in particular.

I'm just saying that this thread is for the benefit of Career and we should all steer clear unless we have something insightful or informative about teaching to contribute.

There's nothing ridiculous about having people being ignorant about teaching. We're used to being misunderstood. I understand that many people still think that teachers only teach and mark and have long holidays. When I said 'ignorant', I meant it as a matter of fact. People who are not in teaching are really ignorant of the jobscope.

I know of people who switch to teaching and kept crying, including men, becos they have invested years in teaching (studying + teaching bond) and realised that teaching is too stressful for them but can't quit becos they have a family to feed. I think that's scary and I'd hate to be in their position.

It's necessary for Career to know the reality of teaching before she takes the plunge. She wants family time after work to coach her kids. That can only be in her dream, really. But if there's really such a school, let me know (seriously). I also want to go.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
hweebs, exactly loh.... lots of endless red tapes. The idea that coming to teaching hoping for more time to spend with their own kids and family is really NOT very sound.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Rainz, realize that your point about the email is really a wrong interpretation of sm's statement.

The suggestion that only MOE teachers can comment in this thread is quite insane IMHO.

2 baringly inaccurate assumptions can be seen in your reactions:-
1) that anyone not a teacher doesn't understand a thing about it.
2) that anyone including yourself that has worked in private sector automatically got it all figured out.

Having worked in both sectors doesn't automatically makes what your comments more valid than others. You, me, sm, we are all sharing and exchanging pov.
 

hweebs

New Member
milo,

yah, so we give picture and reality. In the end it's her choice.

i think rains is mighty upset because she feels discounted...it is not easy to follow the emails in school...each day can have 50, and parents will complain if you do not reply within 3 days. Rains, cool down lah, i know teaching is not easy and you are trying to help career see it.
 

rains

New Member
Milo,

I've put down the 'email' part since it's not going anywhere. You interpret it your way. I interpret it my way. Does it matter? Is this what Career needs?

Isn't the thread asking for contribution about teaching? If you're not an MOE teacher, how can you appreciate what teaching is really like? I would think having people who know nuts about teaching to comment and advise Career on whether she should switch or not is really insane, insipid even. I think she knows that too, that's why she addressed it to MOE teachers in the first place.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
yah hweebs & iris, hence I suggest her to reread everything again to digest it better.

Her emotions of feeling discounted is understandable. Its a career where recognition is not tangible. It comes from the respect and the long term impact teachers impart to the students. No such instant results like the Quarterly financial reports in the biz world. Even that works both ways. There is less stability as biz is completely dramatic in the global climate.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Rains, it matters when you try to make a joke out of something that isn't there.

fyi, 3 yrs back, I almost signed up as ITE lecturer when my company had a merger. Underwent few rounds of interviews. I did talk to many teaching friends and my siblings. We are close and I often hear their woes and concerns. So, don't assume anything like this.
 

rains

New Member
hweebs,

Oh, don't misunderstand me. I'm not upset at all. I'm not the least angry or feel discounted. I just don't want people who don't understand what teaching entails jump on this thread and start machine-gunning teachers and teaching down. I maintain that I did not misunderstand what SM said.

I am quite defensive about teaching I must say, bcos teaching remains a largely misunderstood job (note that I said 'job', not 'profession'). Even my own sisters would tell me to 'take leave' when I needed to do some important personal stuff. I would ask them,"You never went to primary school before is it? Your teacher took leave before ah?"

When I spend so much time on cyber space, it doesn't mean I don't have work to do, just that I'm a highly efficient person. I'll go do my marking just about now.
 

matka

Member
Hi Career

From your 2nd post, I see that your ultimate aim is to become a private tutor or set up your own tuition centre. Correct me if I'm wrong, but teaching is really the means to the goal?

In that case, it sounds like quite a viable option if you don't mind putting investing the time and effort in the years that you are teaching (though personally it sounds like quite a long route). But yes, if the ultimate aim is to gain flexibility of time for the family through tutoring, I believe that there is a good market for NIE-trained tutors.

My former neighbour was a Chinese tutor and had a constant stream of kids going to his house in our HDB estate. Quite a number were dropped off by their parents/drivers in luxury cars. This is not indicative of all tutors, but I do believe that good tutors will be in demand.
 

its_fate

Active Member
rains - No one in here is belittling the effort a teacher has contributed to the school. IF you could spare a few minutes to re-read those posts, you will realise it.

Guess you have forgotten this is a public forum. All can comments regardless what IS the title of the thread. Be realistic.
 

denise80

Active Member
Hweebs,

I beg to differ. Let me play the devil's advocate here. When a lot of people, whether teachers or not, feel that teaching is not about teaching because they have to do CCA or other projects, they are so so wrong here. Teaching is NOT all about EXAM RESULTS. What happens to the holistic education??? Haven't we been criticised enough for producing only exam-smart students? This is why I said earlier that for those who are keen on teaching, be prepared for other duties that are also part of educating the young. Even when you are strategising as a team, it's all for the sake of the students. And therefore, Hweebs, it is very fair to appraise teachers based on all areas and not just teaching in classrooms alone. Those who only claim they want to teach only in classrooms are the shortsighted ones who don't pay attention to the other areas of development for the children. That being said, students' academic performance still cannot be neglected by teachers because they would be those who try to win awards here and there to cover up their inability to deliver in classrooms.
 

rains

New Member
iris,

I was just putting myself in the shoes of the thread starter. I honestly hate to have irrelevant stuff to jam up my thread when it doesn't give me anything worthy (like this post). If she's asking for advice to making the switch, I reckon she wants good advice, not people arguing about something that has nothing to do with her concern.

Believe it or not, when I was a thread starter, I was sarcastic to people who were not contributing to the thread but saying stupid things that were not of my concern.

makta,
You brought up a good point. If Career wants to set up a tuition centre eventually, she might really want to go into teaching first. Because having an NIE cert and without one does make a diff to the public. I have this colleague who's interested to set up a childcare centre with a few other teachers, and word got around that there's going to be an MOE-recognised childcare coming up! So perhaps, yeah, that can be a viable option, just that she won't be able to fit all that she wants in teaching.
 

hweebs

New Member
perhaps i clarify?

I think rains means to say that unless you have worked in a school as a teacher before, you will not ever know what kind of hell it is, no matter what stories you have heard, no matter which of your friends or relatives work there. If you hadn't, of course it is easy to say that all difficult jobs are equally difficult. Therefore she feels that advice to be a teacher or not should only come from a teacher to be accurate.

Actually you guys are right, everyone can comment on the thread. And for that case it doesn't matter what take home message career has at the end of the day as well. She has the responsibility to read through everything and make her own decisions.
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
"Isn't the thread asking for contribution about teaching? If you're not an MOE teacher, how can you appreciate what teaching is really like? I would think having people who know nuts about teaching to comment and advise Career on whether she should switch or not is really insane, insipid even. I think she knows that too, that's why she addressed it to MOE teachers in the first place."

Do we really need to be a specialist to be discussing a particular topic?

This is not an exam or test, no right or wrong answer there.
 

denise80

Active Member
Anyway Rains is right about the emails hehe...the most stressful of all is to open emails because one day, we get about 50 of them. Why is that so? Because everyday we get new programmes, projects, workshops and other things that require our immediate attention. But I believe it's the same in other jobs again. I do see my hubby opening and answering emails during weekends too. As I do my marking or planning, he does his slides for presentation too. Sama Sama. So peace, everybody.

But it's indeed funny to hear strong opinions about teaching from those who do not teach. Though some of you may have friends or relatives who are teaching, their views also don't represent the world's views. Like Milo, you mentioned that when your sis was from a Mission school, things were better right? So again, it boils down to which school you go to, just like which company / branch you join can have different leadership and directions too.

And I believe Rains may sound grouchy or defensive here but I'm sure she loves her job or she wouldn't be here to defend for her job. There are people who still think teaching is great because of the holidays. There are also those who think it's shitty because they heard horrible stories from friends. If I were to pick ten engineers from ST engineering randomly, I believe some will like it while others will criticise the management and job too right?

As far as I'm concerned, I think I've shared quite a bit already. At times we all complain about our jobs too (who doesn't?) but ultimately, we know this is our rice bowl and passion. The BEST part about teaching is the more flexible arrangements you can make if you have a child to take care of. There are many different schemes now where you can take 2/3 or 3/4 load. That to me is the best though there'll be a pay cut. I'm looking forward to mine in future when I have a kid and my hubby can more or less manage the finances boy!
 

vios

New Member
hi rains

as far as i see it, you are the very first person in this thread to cause a dispute over Emails - when it is mentioned merely to illustrate a Need for 'non-teaching' people who travels overseas.

no one's referring it to as a "job scope" except yourself. no one's saying teachers do not need to check emails and teaching is darn easy except your own misinterpretations of various posts.

what's the big freaking deal with working in both private and govt sectors such that you thought you are the better person to comment? you are just spending half the time to defend something out of nothing - speaking of irrelevant stuffs.

is there a need to be so defensive? the discussion's getting informative until you started the argument but pointed at someone else. weird.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
hweebs, isn't that the incorrect assumptions that I pointed out?

2 baringly inaccurate assumptions can be seen in your reactions:-
1) that anyone not a teacher doesn't understand a thing about it.
2) that anyone including yourself that has worked in private sector automatically got it all figured out.


"I would think having people who know nuts about teaching to comment and advise Career on whether she should switch or not is really insane, insipid even. I think she knows that too, that's why she addressed it to MOE teachers in the first place."

IMHO, trying to dictate that in a forum is truly the insane and disrespectful move. An attempt to shut others off and discounting it as knowing NUTS.
 

hweebs

New Member
you know, i think it's harsh words when inflamed...you put your foot in your mouth kind of thing. Let's not harp on it lah
happy.gif
we just give what we think is helpful, and not point cannons at each other
 

rains

New Member
denise80,

I feel so ashamed of myself after reading what you've typed in defence of me. Becos I really don't love my job.
happy.gif
But I think it's bearable. I'm not ambitious and have no complaint about the pay. That's all. And I think teachers in general are nice people. I've worked in private sector before and really, I think teachers are much more helpful and wonderful people. So in all, I love teachers, not teaching.
happy.gif
 

rains

New Member
See what I mean when I say teachers are generally nicer people? Teachers are generally big-hearted and more forgiving. And they put down grievances faster than those who are not teachers. This thread is an active living proof.

Or perhaps teachers have more important things to do, and got more work to do. So they move on faster than an average person.
 

denise80

Active Member
LOL...rains, you know what...I love teaching the students and while I love my colleagues too, what made me cry in schools are always office politics - being backstabbed and stuff. No one naughty student could make me cry at all except being backstabbed by teachers as they want to climb the ladder. There are a few times when I was so upset by those backstabbers but the moment I entered my classroom, the students somehow cheered me up. Some even asked if I'd cried once and I told them I was unwell lol...
I think our job takes a lot of patience and tenacity. I've never really worked in the private companies before except being temp staff. Main reason I joined teaching is I don't find it meaningful at all to help companies earn profits. I find it more meaningful to touch a life and pave a person's future.
happy.gif
 

rains

New Member
Oh yes doll,

Teachers are very competitive people. We need to kill each other off so that we ourselves don't get a D grading you know?

So perhaps you can never be a teacher. I doubt you can even qualify to apply for a teaching position, judging from what you've typed.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Teachers are also human. The idea that teachers are all non political is a dream.

"Teachers are generally big-hearted and more forgiving. And they put down grievances faster than those who are not teachers. This thread is an active living proof."
VS
"So perhaps you can never be a teacher. I doubt you can even qualify to apply for a teaching position, judging from what you've typed."

Sadly, rains, you are displaying the living proof of the opposite. I'm quite surprised that you didn't realize that at all.

Denise, on the other hand, isn't. This brings to my point, regardless of profession, its always a mix group.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Denise,

"LOL...rains, you know what...I love teaching the students and while I love my colleagues too, what made me cry in schools are always office politics - being backstabbed and stuff. No one naughty student could make me cry at all except being backstabbed by teachers as they want to climb the ladder. There are a few times when I was so upset by those backstabbers but the moment I entered my classroom, the students somehow cheered me up. Some even asked if I'd cried once and I told them I was unwell lol...
I think our job takes a lot of patience and tenacity. I've never really worked in the private companies before except being temp staff. Main reason I joined teaching is I don't find it meaningful at all to help companies earn profits. I find it more meaningful to touch a life and pave a person's future. :)"


That's so very true. That motivation and satisfaction in the job comes very much from the students.
 

denise80

Active Member
Sidetrack a bit...
Milo, how do you make the text here 'bold' or 'italicised'? Did you copy and paste form elsewhere or are there functions here that i've missed?
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
Milo, what I am thinking is, if a particular job brings out the worse and ugly side in you, it's really not worth doing. Rains is a perfect example.
 

simpleman

Active Member
Rains is a bad "reflection" of the teaching profession. I hope she is not representing the teaching profession.

I still think teaching is a noble profession. Only perhaps the wrong people ended up being teachers.
 

scope_guy

New Member
Teaching eh... Crazy I see it. The admin-- bloody redundant. And the hateful office politics... in the most funniest petty manner, that's another...

What pissed me off most is: Fvck control management.

This teaching thing... needs a reform. Period.
 

kittenpie

New Member
rains, pls give me some career advice with respect to becoming a teacher in an MOE school in Singapore.

What personality attributes make one suitable to become a teacher?

How can one succeed as a teacher?

What is the salary scale of a teacher?

What are the occupational hazards of being a teacher?


Do you ultimately enjoy your job? How long have you been a teacher?

Thanks.
 

kittenpie

New Member
and are there any unwritten restrictions against divorcees that disqualify them from being employed by MOE as teachers?
 

simpleman

Active Member
I know of many teachers who are divorced... so much so that when we went out we will joke whether it is a occupation hazard of being a teacher.

Ha ha.. not too sure if they will accept divorcee. I dont think they will discriminate?
 

denise80

Active Member
Hi May, just thought I can help with your qns...

What personality attributes make one suitable to become a teacher?
One must be outspoken. This person cannot be shy too. If you're someone who freaks out every other presentation during meetings, then you can't be a teacher because a teacher presents everyday to a group of students - imagine 40. And the teacher takes over the mic to talk to the school population - imagine 1000 crowd including adults and your superiors. So basically these are some qualities. So a teacher cannot be the meek or quiet type. Most importantly, the teacher must have the right attitude and passion for teaching. You must have patience and be able to gain the respect of your pupils through MUTUAL respect and rapport. People-oriented basically will help you in a teaching environment.

How can one succeed as a teacher?
With the above qualities I've mentioned. If you're new, it'll be good to show your potential at work - being efficient, outspoken, suggest new initiatives, ideas or solve problems rather than complain and complain - sounds like any other job right? First of all, in the classroom, you must be able to have good classroom management skills. You must be able to command the attention of your pupils and be in control. Next, you must be able to enthuse them in their learning and help them succeed. When your students succeed, you succeed. When you help your boss look good, you succeed. LOL.

What is the salary scale of a teacher?
Not sure about the entry point right now. Think about 2.7k to 6k for a normal teacher. For middle management, can go up to 8k and principals should be more than that. But frankly, it depends on your performance and years of service. It's pretty good $ I feel but that shouldn't be the main factor why one chooses to teach. Most of the time we're so busy we don't even take note of when our monthly pay is coming in. Bonuses are something we look forward though.

What are the occupational hazards of being a teacher?
High Blood Pressure - for those who can't manage stress or students
Need to address some stereotypes certain ppl give to our occupation
Some of my colleagues kenna punched by students when trying to stop a brawl
I kenna molested by a boy - thought it was a misunderstanding at lst only to realise it wasn't later (damn!)
You'll become a public figure and that's why i dreaded going places or taking public transport where students mill around. There's nothing wrong but it's embarrassing with a few of them screaming to greet you in a crowded bus. They're just enthusiastic but I'm not sure if many teachers like the public to know they are teachers?
Always have the tendency to correct people - because of our job nature...we always sound like we're preaching LOL - now you know why I'm here?


Do you ultimately enjoy your job? How long have you been a teacher?
Yes. There are ups and downs like any other job la. For me, 8 years and still going strong. If one is bored, can always have a change of environment by going other schs or HQ. Anyway, I hope one day if I have my own kids, I might want to take things a little slower. Afterall, this job is not easy.

and are there any unwritten restrictions against divorcees that disqualify them from being employed by MOE as teachers?

wow, this I really can't answer. I certainly dont' think so? I have colleagues who are divorced in my school? Even scandals and all but they're still around. Guess their private lives did not affect at all.

But hey May, I thought you are aiming to earn your lst million or something in another thread? Teaching cannot bring you that kind of $ lah...
 

milk_powder

New Member
lol.. see TS, know what i mean now?

Just pick up the facts objectively and avoid siding any of the post.
Balancing of opinions w/o offending anyone, special trait of a teacher, need that.

Yes, teaching is noble, need a gd heart too, n believe in picking starfishes from the beach and sending back to their home (ocean). 1 starfish saved is 1 element of achievement.
 

careerconfused

New Member
Hi all,

Just returned from work and to my surprise- so many comments, advice and a bit of a ruckus going on here!

First of all, thank you, it's really nice to know that ppl arnd do help. Rains, I appreciate your zealous comments on teaching and do know where u are coming from, but I certainly welcome varied opinions even from those in non-teaching careers esp when I am gonna have to make a decision really soon.

Status update- Currently in a dilemna now. Boss called me aside today to say that I have improved tremendously during this period,recognises my efforts and would like fight to push my grading up by 2 levels for my next appraisal. These 3 years have been an uphill task for me as I fought against the unfair impression (read: flower vase) that ppl have of me.

Question is: Should I stay to enjoy the fruits of labour (end year and variable bonus + credibility as an engineer) or move on?
 

kittenpie

New Member
denise, im just really very curious about different occupations.

it sounds like a challenging job and very, very stressful.

promotion-wise, is it something like a 'given' where after you strike out certain routines things on a checklist on achieving them, you can half-entitle to expect a promotion.

if they would let me, i would interview everyone about his occupation. it is for the benefit of widening my knowledge.

... many years ago, i was blind-matchmade to a teacher but he rejected me cause he thought that i was too wild. haha!
 

scope_guy

New Member
Denise80,

Kids nowadays... Pri 5 started dating liaoz... I was fvck shocked. LOL~ The boys were talking about how to sleep with girls. LOL~

During my time, until end of sec school then I started instinctively notice the need to find female company. But I was more into something else.

Be very careful of such stupid kids, boys still have dicks. And their brains ain't fully developed.
 

hweebs

New Member
my opinion: stay, and enjoy the new scenery until the next obstacle you have comes up, and gives you so much pain that you must leave :p
 



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