Any comments about "kronotex" laminated floorings?
- Thread starter lionqueen
- Start date
Hi,
I'm also thinking of using 'kronotex' laminated floorings for my bedrms. I've came across this brand at one of the reno show @ suntec.
I remember the salesperson poured kerosene on the laminated flooring, started fire and let it burned for a min. After which, he juz used a cloth to wipe away the carbon. Then he used a car key to scratch at the surface of the laminated flooring and no scratches occured.
I was told that the lamainated flooring is 12mm in thickness, hence there's a more "wood" feel.
Anyone tried this brand before? I'm seriously considering using it once I get my keys to my unit.
I'm also thinking of using 'kronotex' laminated floorings for my bedrms. I've came across this brand at one of the reno show @ suntec.
I remember the salesperson poured kerosene on the laminated flooring, started fire and let it burned for a min. After which, he juz used a cloth to wipe away the carbon. Then he used a car key to scratch at the surface of the laminated flooring and no scratches occured.
I was told that the lamainated flooring is 12mm in thickness, hence there's a more "wood" feel.
Anyone tried this brand before? I'm seriously considering using it once I get my keys to my unit.
checkerina
New Member
Hi ycl,
FYI,12mm not yet available in SG.Currently in SG only 8mm.Knew it when my contractor call up kronotex salesman in front of us.
Hi kyser,
We will be using this brand for our platform & 3 bedrooms.Should start laying next week.
FYI,12mm not yet available in SG.Currently in SG only 8mm.Knew it when my contractor call up kronotex salesman in front of us.
Hi kyser,
We will be using this brand for our platform & 3 bedrooms.Should start laying next week.
manylobang
New Member
hi,
i saw the 12mm board in singapore but i guess it should be only slightly better. But why waste $$$ cos you can't tell the difference after installation. i don't mind if the price is abit more but supplier try to profiteer as it is new. eg. 8mm to 12mm the only diff is 4mm on the HDF board, everything is same - thus price difference should be S$0.50 maximum psf. I feel not worth it. My sister spent months comparing laminate flooring and finally used Wiparquet and she is very happy with it. I like it too and have also done for my whole house. 8mm and very solid feel, made in germany. i like the with anti- water wax treatment and antibacterial surface, colour very unque and nice, good value for my money. check out various brands before you decide, important is the quality and features and value for $$$$. good luck
i saw the 12mm board in singapore but i guess it should be only slightly better. But why waste $$$ cos you can't tell the difference after installation. i don't mind if the price is abit more but supplier try to profiteer as it is new. eg. 8mm to 12mm the only diff is 4mm on the HDF board, everything is same - thus price difference should be S$0.50 maximum psf. I feel not worth it. My sister spent months comparing laminate flooring and finally used Wiparquet and she is very happy with it. I like it too and have also done for my whole house. 8mm and very solid feel, made in germany. i like the with anti- water wax treatment and antibacterial surface, colour very unque and nice, good value for my money. check out various brands before you decide, important is the quality and features and value for $$$$. good luck
manylobang
New Member
hi celia,
We got it direct. what i was told by their saleman is this brand is only available at most ID. i will check the contact and get back to you
We got it direct. what i was told by their saleman is this brand is only available at most ID. i will check the contact and get back to you
manylobang
New Member
hi celia,
ok i got the contact from squareroom magazine nov/dec issue. tel 67439139 hotline 96939839
price i got to check the invoice cos they have about 3 models and almost 20 colours. i chose 2 different range for bedroom & living. i bargain and threaten to use power decor and got 10% discount. hee hee. contact them and let me know your comments. good luck
ok i got the contact from squareroom magazine nov/dec issue. tel 67439139 hotline 96939839
price i got to check the invoice cos they have about 3 models and almost 20 colours. i chose 2 different range for bedroom & living. i bargain and threaten to use power decor and got 10% discount. hee hee. contact them and let me know your comments. good luck
winterbabylon
New Member
hi
i heard that supreme also has a new model of laminate flooring that is 12 mm thick. in addition to its extra 4mm in thinkness, the laminates also try to duplicate the grains of a real wood. hence you will feel the wood grains if you run your finger across the laminate.
anyone has experience with the new 12 mm supreme laminate? good or bad? i think it is about $5 psf and is made of tropical wood, instead of HDF.
i heard that supreme also has a new model of laminate flooring that is 12 mm thick. in addition to its extra 4mm in thinkness, the laminates also try to duplicate the grains of a real wood. hence you will feel the wood grains if you run your finger across the laminate.
anyone has experience with the new 12 mm supreme laminate? good or bad? i think it is about $5 psf and is made of tropical wood, instead of HDF.
Hi
I will use Kronotex for the whole house except kitchen and toilets, my contractor charge me $4psf. However the floor area he calculated is actually 63sf larger than my actual floor area and he call this as the “wastage” which I need to bear……. Is this normal practice?
Actually Kronotex has 12mm flooring but the range of color is really limited…. Think maybe only 3 to 5 color for you to choose.
I will use Kronotex for the whole house except kitchen and toilets, my contractor charge me $4psf. However the floor area he calculated is actually 63sf larger than my actual floor area and he call this as the “wastage” which I need to bear……. Is this normal practice?
Actually Kronotex has 12mm flooring but the range of color is really limited…. Think maybe only 3 to 5 color for you to choose.
chamonique
New Member
Hi Winter Babylon,
My contractor told me that Supreme is made in Malaysia and the quality is not as good as Kronotex which is made in Germany.
My contractor told me that Supreme is made in Malaysia and the quality is not as good as Kronotex which is made in Germany.
keepitreal
New Member
Hi all,
My ID is giving us Kronotex also. Anyone tried Maple or White Beech? ID was saying "if you want to be different, use white beech" Anyone has experience with these 2 colors? How abt African Black? Appreciate any feedback...
My ID is giving us Kronotex also. Anyone tried Maple or White Beech? ID was saying "if you want to be different, use white beech" Anyone has experience with these 2 colors? How abt African Black? Appreciate any feedback...
Hi Ali G,
I had a short discussion with Kronotex in their "showroom". And during the discussion, the salesman was giving me some advise about the color.. Conclusion: The color for your flooring helps to make a contrast to your rooms. White is a safe color as it can match almost any color. Darker shades will require more attention as it can either made the place very dark or blend in well with your furnitures without becoming the lime light. Hope this helps.
I had a short discussion with Kronotex in their "showroom". And during the discussion, the salesman was giving me some advise about the color.. Conclusion: The color for your flooring helps to make a contrast to your rooms. White is a safe color as it can match almost any color. Darker shades will require more attention as it can either made the place very dark or blend in well with your furnitures without becoming the lime light. Hope this helps.
keepitreal
New Member
Hi Nelson,
Yes you have been a grest help. We have decided to go for Pearl White from Supreme. It has a better "feel" than Kronotex.
Yes you have been a grest help. We have decided to go for Pearl White from Supreme. It has a better "feel" than Kronotex.
keepitreal
New Member
Hi Nelson,
My ID will be taking pix of my home and uploading to his website. Will put the link here once done. Let's hope it'll turn out beautiful...
My ID will be taking pix of my home and uploading to his website. Will put the link here once done. Let's hope it'll turn out beautiful...
good qn, Nelson. Was told 8mm is cheaper but the salespax didn't let me know how much cheaper. the 8mm ones have smmoth surface, not textured surface.
If you go thru contractor, they will give you 8mm ones cos they think everyone goes ard comparing prices (which we are!) and they will quote lowest possible to entice you as they think many pple are not aware of the difference.
If you go thru contractor, they will give you 8mm ones cos they think everyone goes ard comparing prices (which we are!) and they will quote lowest possible to entice you as they think many pple are not aware of the difference.
manylobang
New Member
No offence to all but honesty there is a slight difference between 12mm & 8mm boards. We need not go too technical into it but based on theory -
1. the final outlook between a 8mm & 12mm board is similar cos you cannot see the thickness after laying
2. the solid feel - generally if the floor is level, there should be very little difference especially if you are laying over existing ceramic or tiles flooring as it is quite level.
3. definitely 12mm board should be more expensive but the question is how much more. business point of view is to sell much higher, profiteering. Study the difference, the only difference is the HDF board is 4mm thicker, thus the difference in cost is very low as everything else is the same. i will not pay more than $0.50 psf. the choice is yours.
My personal opinion is that the surface of the flooring is the most important - the colour richness, the approval standards of the scratch resistance ( preferabily with international standard testing or minimum with PSB testing ), the joining of the flooring, any treatment on the joins for higher water resistance, etc....
We consumer should always ensure that what we are paying for is value-for-money.
1. the final outlook between a 8mm & 12mm board is similar cos you cannot see the thickness after laying
2. the solid feel - generally if the floor is level, there should be very little difference especially if you are laying over existing ceramic or tiles flooring as it is quite level.
3. definitely 12mm board should be more expensive but the question is how much more. business point of view is to sell much higher, profiteering. Study the difference, the only difference is the HDF board is 4mm thicker, thus the difference in cost is very low as everything else is the same. i will not pay more than $0.50 psf. the choice is yours.
My personal opinion is that the surface of the flooring is the most important - the colour richness, the approval standards of the scratch resistance ( preferabily with international standard testing or minimum with PSB testing ), the joining of the flooring, any treatment on the joins for higher water resistance, etc....
We consumer should always ensure that what we are paying for is value-for-money.
manylobang
New Member
No offence to all but honesty there is a slight difference between 12mm & 8mm boards. We need not go too technical into it but based on theory -
1. the final outlook between a 8mm & 12mm board is similar cos you cannot see the thickness after laying
2. the solid feel - generally if the floor is level, there should be very little difference especially if you are laying over existing ceramic or tiles flooring as it is quite level.
3. definitely 12mm board should be more expensive but the question is how much more. business point of view is to sell much higher, profiteering. Study the difference, the only difference is the HDF board is 4mm thicker, thus the difference in cost is very low as everything else is the same. i will not pay more than $0.50 psf. the choice is yours.
My personal opinion is that the surface of the flooring is the most important - the colour richness, the approval standards of the scratch resistance ( preferabily with international standard testing or minimum with PSB testing ), the joining of the flooring, any treatment on the joins for higher water resistance, etc....
We consumer should always ensure that what we are paying for is value-for-money. Good luck.
1. the final outlook between a 8mm & 12mm board is similar cos you cannot see the thickness after laying
2. the solid feel - generally if the floor is level, there should be very little difference especially if you are laying over existing ceramic or tiles flooring as it is quite level.
3. definitely 12mm board should be more expensive but the question is how much more. business point of view is to sell much higher, profiteering. Study the difference, the only difference is the HDF board is 4mm thicker, thus the difference in cost is very low as everything else is the same. i will not pay more than $0.50 psf. the choice is yours.
My personal opinion is that the surface of the flooring is the most important - the colour richness, the approval standards of the scratch resistance ( preferabily with international standard testing or minimum with PSB testing ), the joining of the flooring, any treatment on the joins for higher water resistance, etc....
We consumer should always ensure that what we are paying for is value-for-money. Good luck.
I guess none of us are offended... rite??
Just for info:
Kronotex 12mm is AC5 and that standard is for commercial flooring. Very good resistance to scratches
Kronotex 8mm is AC3 and is normal
i will not promote further for kronotex cos no commission leh..
I like wipaquet for its anti-bacteria thingie. I agree with shiok about the color richness etc.. so hmm.. finally price.. headache!!
Just for info:
Kronotex 12mm is AC5 and that standard is for commercial flooring. Very good resistance to scratches
Kronotex 8mm is AC3 and is normal
i will not promote further for kronotex cos no commission leh..
winterbabylon
New Member
hmm shiok, thank you very much for the information that you have supplied for us regarding laminates.
however, i beg to differ that there are little differences between a 8mm and 12 mm laminate. though I have not see kronotex or wiparquet laminates before, i have made direct comparisons between a 8mm and a 12mm supreme laminate (which Ali G is using as well).
As Ali G has mentioned earlier, the 12mm laminates come with a surface that is wood-like with grains (like a veneer); whereas a 8mm laminate has a very smooth surface similar to the laminate (formica) that we use on our kitchen cabinets. Hence, the outlook after laying, is actually not the same. The size of the boards (length x breadth) are also different.
Additionally, these 12mm boards are also protected at all its 4 edges to further improve its water resistance level.
Secondly, a 4mm difference makes a lot of difference in its properties. I am sure many engineers can tell you how even a 1mm difference in thickness can drastically affect the property of a board.
I do agree with you that being a new product, companies may jack up the price of 12mm laminates for profiteering, but having said that, consumers must be educated enough to pay 'rightfully' what they are getting. I am sure if companies jacked up the price of 12mm to unreasonable levels, consumers will not be attracted to these new laminates. Like you have said "We consumer should always ensure that what we are paying for is value-for-money".
Yes, I also fully agree with you that the surface of the laminates are very important. Of course, testings by acredited bodies are important too. But my experience with PSB and international standards tells me not to trust these approval standards by International testing or PSB completely. Analogously, a ISO accredited company doesn't mean that it is better than a non-ISO accredited company. Likewise, a public listed company doesn't mean it is better than a non-public listed company, e.g. CAO.
All laminates are accompanied by their scratch resistance level: AC1, AC2, ..., AC5. AC5 is the most scratch resistant and AC5 laminates are seldom used in residential areas. More often than not, AC3 laminates should suffice for residential use.
Just my thoughts...
however, i beg to differ that there are little differences between a 8mm and 12 mm laminate. though I have not see kronotex or wiparquet laminates before, i have made direct comparisons between a 8mm and a 12mm supreme laminate (which Ali G is using as well).
As Ali G has mentioned earlier, the 12mm laminates come with a surface that is wood-like with grains (like a veneer); whereas a 8mm laminate has a very smooth surface similar to the laminate (formica) that we use on our kitchen cabinets. Hence, the outlook after laying, is actually not the same. The size of the boards (length x breadth) are also different.
Additionally, these 12mm boards are also protected at all its 4 edges to further improve its water resistance level.
Secondly, a 4mm difference makes a lot of difference in its properties. I am sure many engineers can tell you how even a 1mm difference in thickness can drastically affect the property of a board.
I do agree with you that being a new product, companies may jack up the price of 12mm laminates for profiteering, but having said that, consumers must be educated enough to pay 'rightfully' what they are getting. I am sure if companies jacked up the price of 12mm to unreasonable levels, consumers will not be attracted to these new laminates. Like you have said "We consumer should always ensure that what we are paying for is value-for-money".
Yes, I also fully agree with you that the surface of the laminates are very important. Of course, testings by acredited bodies are important too. But my experience with PSB and international standards tells me not to trust these approval standards by International testing or PSB completely. Analogously, a ISO accredited company doesn't mean that it is better than a non-ISO accredited company. Likewise, a public listed company doesn't mean it is better than a non-public listed company, e.g. CAO.
All laminates are accompanied by their scratch resistance level: AC1, AC2, ..., AC5. AC5 is the most scratch resistant and AC5 laminates are seldom used in residential areas. More often than not, AC3 laminates should suffice for residential use.
Just my thoughts...
winterbabylon
New Member
Hi Ali G,
So I gather from the thread above that you are using 12mm Supreme laminates? How much are you charged per square foot for the laminates? Perhaps that will allow us to know approximately what is the price difference between a 8mm and a 12mm thick Supreme laminate?
So I gather from the thread above that you are using 12mm Supreme laminates? How much are you charged per square foot for the laminates? Perhaps that will allow us to know approximately what is the price difference between a 8mm and a 12mm thick Supreme laminate?
Hi all
Actually I have seen the latest designs for 8mm Kronotex, and I think they have the wood grain "textured" type designs, which someone mentioned it's only for 12mm types..
HEnce, you may like to consider this point as well. I am also likely to take this 8mm wood-grain type from Kronotex
Actually I have seen the latest designs for 8mm Kronotex, and I think they have the wood grain "textured" type designs, which someone mentioned it's only for 12mm types..
HEnce, you may like to consider this point as well. I am also likely to take this 8mm wood-grain type from Kronotex
manylobang
New Member
Hi Winterbabylon,
Interesting comments. With regards to your opinion on "even 1mm difference makes alot of difference to the property of the board" yes, i fully agree but it depends on the application. eg. if the floorboard is freestanding every additional mm is very impt. but if the floorboard is fully resting on a level surface there is no great benefits of a thicker board. in fact, the main expansion of the laminate floorboard is from the HDF and with a thicker HDF floorboard, there is even a greater risk of expansion problem.
Second is the texture of the floorboards - from my research, most brands (8mm) does have textured surface - brands like powerdekor, supreme, kronotex, Wiparquet, etc. with regards to the like woodgrains, Wiparquet Nature collections, has a very natural woodgrain and with very unique colour/pattern and i am using for my stairs and living/dining.
Interesting comments. With regards to your opinion on "even 1mm difference makes alot of difference to the property of the board" yes, i fully agree but it depends on the application. eg. if the floorboard is freestanding every additional mm is very impt. but if the floorboard is fully resting on a level surface there is no great benefits of a thicker board. in fact, the main expansion of the laminate floorboard is from the HDF and with a thicker HDF floorboard, there is even a greater risk of expansion problem.
Second is the texture of the floorboards - from my research, most brands (8mm) does have textured surface - brands like powerdekor, supreme, kronotex, Wiparquet, etc. with regards to the like woodgrains, Wiparquet Nature collections, has a very natural woodgrain and with very unique colour/pattern and i am using for my stairs and living/dining.
manylobang
New Member
Hi Winterbabylon,
I have to disagree with your comments about not trusting international bodies and your comparison with ISO registered.....
Firstly, a certification by international bodies, ie. PSB, RAL, DIN, IEC, etc is definitely different cos the products is being TESTED and APPROVED to meet the necessary standards and specifications. Anyone can simply indicate their product comform to AC3 or more but if without them submitting their product for testing and certification, who can verify that their product meet the specifications.
An ISO registered company, is basically a company that comply with the operating procedures. Of course an ISO registered company may not neccessary be better than a non ISO registered company cos it depends on their quality and operating procedures of a company. You can have a PSB or DIN or RAL approve product but I have yet heard of an ISO approved product cos ISO is a certification to the company operating or quality procedures and it has nothing much to do with the product testing.
I have to disagree with your comments about not trusting international bodies and your comparison with ISO registered.....
Firstly, a certification by international bodies, ie. PSB, RAL, DIN, IEC, etc is definitely different cos the products is being TESTED and APPROVED to meet the necessary standards and specifications. Anyone can simply indicate their product comform to AC3 or more but if without them submitting their product for testing and certification, who can verify that their product meet the specifications.
An ISO registered company, is basically a company that comply with the operating procedures. Of course an ISO registered company may not neccessary be better than a non ISO registered company cos it depends on their quality and operating procedures of a company. You can have a PSB or DIN or RAL approve product but I have yet heard of an ISO approved product cos ISO is a certification to the company operating or quality procedures and it has nothing much to do with the product testing.
winterbabylon
New Member
Hi Shiok,
Yes you are right that there is no ISO approved product. Well, I analogously exemplified by commenting an ISO accredited company may not be better than a non-ISO accredited company, right?
I understand where you are coming from, but my experience with PSB (especially) is definitely not a trust-all event. When companies send their products to PSB (or any standards and certification companies), they are only sending in samples. What these standards companies do is to base on the samples to seal the stamp of approval of the rating. So, a paranoid person (though logical) may wonder what are sent to these standards companies may not be what one would get from the supplier. Secondly, how are we going to be assure of the tests carried out by these standards/certification companies are valid? What they are doing may not be what EN 13329 requires them to do.
I cannot reveal my experience with PSB here but all I can say that we should not trust 100% about PSB or simply just any standards and certification companies. Whether a product is certified or not doesn't imply if the product is good. For instance, an electrical appliance with a safety logo, doesn't mean it will not malfunction and cause harm to its users. Another example will be HSA. I am sure you remember the SlimTrim saga. Singaporeans have trusted HSA (a certification body for food products) but only when a mediacorp artiste fell ill because of SlimTrim, then we realise that HSA has been negligent in its part. It has actually allowed a product with forbidden content to be sold in Singapore.
I may not have done enough research on HDF boards, but if my knowledge is right, HDF boards are anisotropic materials. It's large aspect ratio (length to thickness ratio) in fact will give it a high chance of expansion/contraction in its lengthwise direction. Hence, if the board is thicker by 1mm, its length to thickness ratio decreases, thus reducing its expansion/contraction coefficient. Thus, perhaps you would like to explain to me in further details why a thicker HDF board will even have a greater risk of expansion?
I am not favouring any brands here. For that matter, I may even go for Wiparquet eventually. My thoughts is just that we as consumers should not fully (100%) rely/trust on companies whose products have been tested/certified by some standards/certification companies; or public-listed companies.
Yes you are right that there is no ISO approved product. Well, I analogously exemplified by commenting an ISO accredited company may not be better than a non-ISO accredited company, right?
I understand where you are coming from, but my experience with PSB (especially) is definitely not a trust-all event. When companies send their products to PSB (or any standards and certification companies), they are only sending in samples. What these standards companies do is to base on the samples to seal the stamp of approval of the rating. So, a paranoid person (though logical) may wonder what are sent to these standards companies may not be what one would get from the supplier. Secondly, how are we going to be assure of the tests carried out by these standards/certification companies are valid? What they are doing may not be what EN 13329 requires them to do.
I cannot reveal my experience with PSB here but all I can say that we should not trust 100% about PSB or simply just any standards and certification companies. Whether a product is certified or not doesn't imply if the product is good. For instance, an electrical appliance with a safety logo, doesn't mean it will not malfunction and cause harm to its users. Another example will be HSA. I am sure you remember the SlimTrim saga. Singaporeans have trusted HSA (a certification body for food products) but only when a mediacorp artiste fell ill because of SlimTrim, then we realise that HSA has been negligent in its part. It has actually allowed a product with forbidden content to be sold in Singapore.
I may not have done enough research on HDF boards, but if my knowledge is right, HDF boards are anisotropic materials. It's large aspect ratio (length to thickness ratio) in fact will give it a high chance of expansion/contraction in its lengthwise direction. Hence, if the board is thicker by 1mm, its length to thickness ratio decreases, thus reducing its expansion/contraction coefficient. Thus, perhaps you would like to explain to me in further details why a thicker HDF board will even have a greater risk of expansion?
I am not favouring any brands here. For that matter, I may even go for Wiparquet eventually. My thoughts is just that we as consumers should not fully (100%) rely/trust on companies whose products have been tested/certified by some standards/certification companies; or public-listed companies.
manylobang
New Member
Hi nelson,
cost is definitely a big and main factor.
It is quite fortunate for my pocket that my children like the beech colour very much ( basic range ) and my wife like the maple.
I personally prefers the Nature range thus we compromised. Anyway, we often have parties at home with lots of "monkeys" jumping and playing around, we decided on the Nature for all the common areas as I was told is commercial grade flooring - AC4.
cost is definitely a big and main factor.
It is quite fortunate for my pocket that my children like the beech colour very much ( basic range ) and my wife like the maple.
I personally prefers the Nature range thus we compromised. Anyway, we often have parties at home with lots of "monkeys" jumping and playing around, we decided on the Nature for all the common areas as I was told is commercial grade flooring - AC4.
manylobang
New Member
Hi Winterbabylon,
thanks for your comments. to be honest, some of your words very cheem and i have to check the dictionary.
Yes, i fully agree with you that PSB is not always 100% accurate and in my earlier thread, i did mentioned that international test approval is preferred but PSB is better than nothing at all.
thanks for your comments. to be honest, some of your words very cheem and i have to check the dictionary.
Yes, i fully agree with you that PSB is not always 100% accurate and in my earlier thread, i did mentioned that international test approval is preferred but PSB is better than nothing at all.
winterbabylon
New Member
Hi Shiok,
In fact I like the colors of wiparquet. they are very wood-like. unfortunately all my shortlisted IDs do not carry this product. And for the price that you are paying, I would say that wiparquet is very value-for-money.
Anyway after using it, do you find any obvious contraction in wiparquet? One thing that I can't stand laminate flooring is that after some time, thick black lines at the joints can be seen due to contraction problem.
From the website of www.classen.de/en, I am not able to figure out if the surface of the laminates are fully flushed, or there are some textures as in not fully flat?
In fact I like the colors of wiparquet. they are very wood-like. unfortunately all my shortlisted IDs do not carry this product. And for the price that you are paying, I would say that wiparquet is very value-for-money.
Anyway after using it, do you find any obvious contraction in wiparquet? One thing that I can't stand laminate flooring is that after some time, thick black lines at the joints can be seen due to contraction problem.
From the website of www.classen.de/en, I am not able to figure out if the surface of the laminates are fully flushed, or there are some textures as in not fully flat?
winterbabylon
New Member
Oh by the way, does wiparquet has a showroom? so that i wont need to call Gary up to see see look look?
keepitreal
New Member
Wah! Didn't noe that a simple laminate flooring can have a discussion so complicated.
Hi Winter,
wrt to ur qns, i'm sorry to say that i'm unable to provide any ans. Reasons being:
1. My 4 laminated bedrooms comes with a package, thus do not know the cost per foot.
2. Whether mine is 8mm or 12mm, i did not ask (so most probably i'm getting the 8mm one cos more cost savings for ID).
3. I took White Pearl from Supreme simply for the "feel". Its "rougher" than the normal formica type (like wat u mentioned). So if u're right, then i'll be getting the 12mm one!
Hi Winter,
wrt to ur qns, i'm sorry to say that i'm unable to provide any ans. Reasons being:
1. My 4 laminated bedrooms comes with a package, thus do not know the cost per foot.
2. Whether mine is 8mm or 12mm, i did not ask (so most probably i'm getting the 8mm one cos more cost savings for ID).
3. I took White Pearl from Supreme simply for the "feel". Its "rougher" than the normal formica type (like wat u mentioned). So if u're right, then i'll be getting the 12mm one!
manylobang
New Member
Hi Winterbaby,
so far there is no problem except for my attic, there is a slight contraction at the short end. i checked with the distributor and they managed to touch up the problem area. They explained that it is rare that this problem occur and it is due to the uncommon high temperature at the attic. I have to agree as my attic is very warm during the day. the rest of the flooring is so far so good. during the presentation, i was told that the joining of the floorboard is a very special design/system thus the joining is very strong and it is a patented design.
so far there is no problem except for my attic, there is a slight contraction at the short end. i checked with the distributor and they managed to touch up the problem area. They explained that it is rare that this problem occur and it is due to the uncommon high temperature at the attic. I have to agree as my attic is very warm during the day. the rest of the flooring is so far so good. during the presentation, i was told that the joining of the floorboard is a very special design/system thus the joining is very strong and it is a patented design.
manylobang
New Member
with regards to wiparquet showroom, i really don't know leh. Cos for my case, i got personalised service. they brought all their samples and catalogues and did their presentation at my house. I abit kiasu and even requested to see the bigger pieces of floorboard to be sure and i got the service.
manylobang
New Member
I made a check at wiparquet website www.classen.de
yes it is in german, schroll down to the end of any page and select language to English.
you can check the direct link at
http://www.classen.de/en/produkte/laminat/index.cfm/page/menu/cfid/733805/cftoken/44988271
important is to read up on the features - left of page, open "please choose" all the features are listed.
information on AntiBacterial surface, very interesting
http://www.microban.com/europe/products/manufacturer.html?lang=en&CategoryID=6&SubcategoryID=65&ManufacturerID=84
read about microban, you will be amazed.
cheers
yes it is in german, schroll down to the end of any page and select language to English.
you can check the direct link at
http://www.classen.de/en/produkte/laminat/index.cfm/page/menu/cfid/733805/cftoken/44988271
important is to read up on the features - left of page, open "please choose" all the features are listed.
information on AntiBacterial surface, very interesting
http://www.microban.com/europe/products/manufacturer.html?lang=en&CategoryID=6&SubcategoryID=65&ManufacturerID=84
read about microban, you will be amazed.
cheers
winterbabylon
New Member
hi foggy,
my ID told me that the 12mm supreme is the best choice for my case.
My FH has also called up Supreme and the technical personel who spoke to him confirmed that Supreme laminates are also all certified by PSB (though like I said before, do not trust 100% all these standards) and my FH has also get a copy of the standard EN 13329 to study. Basically the test methods for a laminate is not so complicated.
From EN 13329, my FH also realise that AC3 comes in two classes: class 21 and class 31. For the 12mm Supreme laminates, they are of grade AC3, class 31.
And I am sorry to say this too: My FH has found out that Ram Asia Marketing who is the dealer for Wiparquet laminates is actually a sole proprietorship business. Though he has nothing against general sole proprietorship businesses, he is afraid that if one day, Wiparquet decided not to offer Ram Asia Marketing the agency in future, then our Wiparquet laminates may no longer have any warranty. Can't possibly ask the engineers/technicians from Germany to repair our laminates in Singapre if there are any defects, right?
Secondly he is also a bit worried of using Wiparquet because the agent/dealer is a sole proprietorship and when goods paid comes with warranty, it is best to go for PTE LTD, according to him.
He also agreed that if Wiparquet has a direct showroom in Singapore (not via some agency or dealer), he will most likely opt for Wiparquet, because from the comments given here, Wiparquet may indeed has better quality than Supreme.
(I hope I didnt offend anyone with the information provided above)
my ID told me that the 12mm supreme is the best choice for my case.
My FH has also called up Supreme and the technical personel who spoke to him confirmed that Supreme laminates are also all certified by PSB (though like I said before, do not trust 100% all these standards) and my FH has also get a copy of the standard EN 13329 to study. Basically the test methods for a laminate is not so complicated.
From EN 13329, my FH also realise that AC3 comes in two classes: class 21 and class 31. For the 12mm Supreme laminates, they are of grade AC3, class 31.
And I am sorry to say this too: My FH has found out that Ram Asia Marketing who is the dealer for Wiparquet laminates is actually a sole proprietorship business. Though he has nothing against general sole proprietorship businesses, he is afraid that if one day, Wiparquet decided not to offer Ram Asia Marketing the agency in future, then our Wiparquet laminates may no longer have any warranty. Can't possibly ask the engineers/technicians from Germany to repair our laminates in Singapre if there are any defects, right?
Secondly he is also a bit worried of using Wiparquet because the agent/dealer is a sole proprietorship and when goods paid comes with warranty, it is best to go for PTE LTD, according to him.
He also agreed that if Wiparquet has a direct showroom in Singapore (not via some agency or dealer), he will most likely opt for Wiparquet, because from the comments given here, Wiparquet may indeed has better quality than Supreme.
(I hope I didnt offend anyone with the information provided above)
manylobang
New Member
ha ha ha, no offence but your anology about sole proprietor against pte ltd is really strange. Are you aware that pte ltd company is fully protecting the owner of the business cos their liablity is limited and the owner is personally not liable for any claim against them? there are many pte ltd company with only a paid up of S$2.00 and if the owners of the biz want to scam, they are not personally liable.
with regards to supreme, from my guess, is basically a local company registered with pte ltd status with a paid up capital, meaning they are with limited liability. they got a manufacturer from malaysia who is willing to support them with laminate floorings. their arrangement with the manufacturer is to have their own branding of floorboard - Supreme Flooring. Thus the brand is a local OEM brand. if Supreme were to give up the biz, there will be totally no support at all ( so the 10year warranty or whatever warranty ends there ). Wherelse for international brands, generally the manufacturer will back up the warranty terms and conditions. It will be a joke to make comparison of a local brand against an international brand like kronotex, wiparquet, power dekor, etc.
Actually i am not concern about your comments on this issue but i have to correct the info you provide as your anology is very misleading.
with regards to supreme, from my guess, is basically a local company registered with pte ltd status with a paid up capital, meaning they are with limited liability. they got a manufacturer from malaysia who is willing to support them with laminate floorings. their arrangement with the manufacturer is to have their own branding of floorboard - Supreme Flooring. Thus the brand is a local OEM brand. if Supreme were to give up the biz, there will be totally no support at all ( so the 10year warranty or whatever warranty ends there ). Wherelse for international brands, generally the manufacturer will back up the warranty terms and conditions. It will be a joke to make comparison of a local brand against an international brand like kronotex, wiparquet, power dekor, etc.
Actually i am not concern about your comments on this issue but i have to correct the info you provide as your anology is very misleading.
winterbabylon
New Member
hi shiok,
it's funny. i didnt give any analogy. why do u say that it is an analogy.
perhaps we are different. You may like to deal with a person (sole proprietorship) but my FH and I prefer to do business with a company (pte ltd). Yes, the owner can scam, so can the owner of a sole proprietorship.
As I have said, I have nothing agains Wiparquet. If they have a showroom in Singapore (not via any agency), my FH and I will surely go for it. And we will also buy stuff from retails shops even if they are sole proprietorship. but when goods are supposed to be warrantied, my FH and I *prefer* to deal with Pte Ltd. (I mentioned the same thing above which is due to my preference, and I am not forcing anyone to follow my idea. And I have given my reasons why I feel that dealing with a PTD LTD is more suitable for warrantied goods)
You are giving me the impression that you dislike local brands from your comments. I do not know what is it that you are against local brands.
Lastly, actually I also don't care if you are concerned or offended by my comments at all.
it's funny. i didnt give any analogy. why do u say that it is an analogy.
perhaps we are different. You may like to deal with a person (sole proprietorship) but my FH and I prefer to do business with a company (pte ltd). Yes, the owner can scam, so can the owner of a sole proprietorship.
As I have said, I have nothing agains Wiparquet. If they have a showroom in Singapore (not via any agency), my FH and I will surely go for it. And we will also buy stuff from retails shops even if they are sole proprietorship. but when goods are supposed to be warrantied, my FH and I *prefer* to deal with Pte Ltd. (I mentioned the same thing above which is due to my preference, and I am not forcing anyone to follow my idea. And I have given my reasons why I feel that dealing with a PTD LTD is more suitable for warrantied goods)
You are giving me the impression that you dislike local brands from your comments. I do not know what is it that you are against local brands.
Lastly, actually I also don't care if you are concerned or offended by my comments at all.
manylobang
New Member
Hi Winterbaby
glad to know that you have finally made up your mind of getting the 12mm board. generally, there is no right or wrong. However, my opinion is that it is not a great benefit to have a thicker board cos the floorboard will be laid on a flat flooring and the thickness will not matter very much. On top of this, after laying the flooring, nobody can see the thickness of the board thus i feel that it is most important to choose based on the quality of the surface of the board. What i had done is to put the different brand of flooring side by side and compare the surface richness, compare the joining method and design of joint, check the quality, etc. After your earlier comment, i called and check with gary about my flooring. He emailed me the test and approval standards http://www.classen.de/en/produkte/laminat/competence/index.cfm/page/pruefstandards/cfid/827814/cftoken/47196929
Gary also informed me that what i bought, the basic collection is AC3 at class 31 and the nature range is AC4 at class 32 and backed by international test certification.
Conclusion - make your own decision but ensure that you get your money worth. my personal opinion is that generally made in germany products are of higher quality standards but it is more expensive. Budget against quality.
glad to know that you have finally made up your mind of getting the 12mm board. generally, there is no right or wrong. However, my opinion is that it is not a great benefit to have a thicker board cos the floorboard will be laid on a flat flooring and the thickness will not matter very much. On top of this, after laying the flooring, nobody can see the thickness of the board thus i feel that it is most important to choose based on the quality of the surface of the board. What i had done is to put the different brand of flooring side by side and compare the surface richness, compare the joining method and design of joint, check the quality, etc. After your earlier comment, i called and check with gary about my flooring. He emailed me the test and approval standards http://www.classen.de/en/produkte/laminat/competence/index.cfm/page/pruefstandards/cfid/827814/cftoken/47196929
Gary also informed me that what i bought, the basic collection is AC3 at class 31 and the nature range is AC4 at class 32 and backed by international test certification.
Conclusion - make your own decision but ensure that you get your money worth. my personal opinion is that generally made in germany products are of higher quality standards but it is more expensive. Budget against quality.
Hi winter_babylon and shiok...
All your information and opinion are noted. And i would say your comments really benefited all who are considering laminated flooring. With all these information i guess many who browse thru this thread will be able to make a better choice.
Thks
All your information and opinion are noted. And i would say your comments really benefited all who are considering laminated flooring. With all these information i guess many who browse thru this thread will be able to make a better choice.
Thks
winterbabylon
New Member
shiok,
sometimes i find that you are protecting wiparquet too much. firstly, you didnt really compare specification with specifications for the various brands, but commented that it is a joke to compare a local brand with international brand. If you were a german in germany, Supreme will become an international brand to you. I guess since you said that you have made some much research on laminates, you should have all the details. We already know about the Microban thing. But how about the technical specifications. Why don't you do us a favour and compare all the brands side by side in a table? You mentioned that the joints of Wiparquet are better. Yes, it may be better, but how is it better? Why is it that Wiparquet's joint is better than other brands? Did you carry out tests yourself? And you mentioned surface richness. How do you compare surface richness? The design of the joints? Again how do you come up with conclusions that the designs of the joints in Wiparquet are more superior than other brands? It seems to me that you are relying on comparisons methods with visual inspection. Seriously I am not sure how a person who can denounce and undermine the effectiveness of an extra 4mm thickness in a board have the knowledge and ability to conclude that the design of a certain joint is better than the others.
I agree with you that a 12mm board when laid on a floor will not have and difference visually compared to a 8mm board laid on a floor. I fully agree with you that visually there is no difference. But I cannot agree with you that there is no benefits. You are like saying a 2.4 liters car is no better than a 1.3 litre car just because visually you can't see any difference.
Secondly, you told me that a PTE LTD can be a $2 paid up capital. I know that. In fact $1 is already enough. However, at least PTE LTD are subjected to Govt's audit and accountant's approval. If $2 paid up capital is to be condemned by you, then $0 paid up capital for sole proprietorship isn't it worst?
If you say Supreme were to give up the biz, all warranty will end. Then isn't it the same to say that if Kronotex or Wiparquet or any other brands were to give up their biz, all warranty will end there too. There is no difference at all.
But what I am refering to is that if Wiparquet decided not to deal in Singapore and take away the agency rights from RAM Asia Marketing, then who shall the customers turn to if their laminates need repair? Now the customers can contact RAM Asia Marketing. But what if when there is no local agency at all? Do customers call to Germany and speak to Wiparquet? Do Wiparquet send their engineers from Germany to Singapore just to repair my laminate and to honour their warranty? Or do I send my laminate over there to Germany?
Since you like to touch on the issue of paid up capital, it is no secret that anyone can find out the details of any company in Singapore. For your information, Supreme Lion Marketing Pte Ltd has a total $475,000.00 paid up capital and $1,000,000.00 authorised capital. Meaning to say, if one day as a consumer I want to sue Supreme for some reason, the most that I can claim is $1,000,000.00. Well, to me that is better than none compared to suing a sole proprietor. If the owner of a sole proprietorship is staying in a HDB flat, I cannot even claim his house. And if he file for bankruptcy, there is nothing I can do.
And why do my FH and I not prefer to deal with businesses that are sole proprietorship and at the same time an agent for a certain brand. Our reasons (whether accepted by you or the general public or not) is that if the owner of the agent is cunning, he can simply take our hard-earned money (perhaps a few thousands dollars to you is not a lot) and flee the country. If that happens, I cannot sue the company because it is a sole proprietorship. I cannot claim for his house if it is a HDB flat. I can only claim his TVs, furnitures, etc. (if you want information about RAM Asia Marketing, you can always PM me, cos I have bought their business profile together with Supreme's)
When I mentioned that Supreme 12 mm boards are of AC3 class 31, I am not undermining that Wiparquet boards are inferior. I am just informing the general public here that there are two classes of AC3: class 21 and class 31. I did not even mention if class 21 or 31 is better. Hence I do not know why are you so apprehensive and eager to call up Gary to confirm that your laminates are of the same class/grade.
Though I applaud and appreciate your willingness to share, I kind of given the idea that you are protecting Wiparquet too much without giving any hard facts that it is really better than any other brands.
sometimes i find that you are protecting wiparquet too much. firstly, you didnt really compare specification with specifications for the various brands, but commented that it is a joke to compare a local brand with international brand. If you were a german in germany, Supreme will become an international brand to you. I guess since you said that you have made some much research on laminates, you should have all the details. We already know about the Microban thing. But how about the technical specifications. Why don't you do us a favour and compare all the brands side by side in a table? You mentioned that the joints of Wiparquet are better. Yes, it may be better, but how is it better? Why is it that Wiparquet's joint is better than other brands? Did you carry out tests yourself? And you mentioned surface richness. How do you compare surface richness? The design of the joints? Again how do you come up with conclusions that the designs of the joints in Wiparquet are more superior than other brands? It seems to me that you are relying on comparisons methods with visual inspection. Seriously I am not sure how a person who can denounce and undermine the effectiveness of an extra 4mm thickness in a board have the knowledge and ability to conclude that the design of a certain joint is better than the others.
I agree with you that a 12mm board when laid on a floor will not have and difference visually compared to a 8mm board laid on a floor. I fully agree with you that visually there is no difference. But I cannot agree with you that there is no benefits. You are like saying a 2.4 liters car is no better than a 1.3 litre car just because visually you can't see any difference.
Secondly, you told me that a PTE LTD can be a $2 paid up capital. I know that. In fact $1 is already enough. However, at least PTE LTD are subjected to Govt's audit and accountant's approval. If $2 paid up capital is to be condemned by you, then $0 paid up capital for sole proprietorship isn't it worst?
If you say Supreme were to give up the biz, all warranty will end. Then isn't it the same to say that if Kronotex or Wiparquet or any other brands were to give up their biz, all warranty will end there too. There is no difference at all.
But what I am refering to is that if Wiparquet decided not to deal in Singapore and take away the agency rights from RAM Asia Marketing, then who shall the customers turn to if their laminates need repair? Now the customers can contact RAM Asia Marketing. But what if when there is no local agency at all? Do customers call to Germany and speak to Wiparquet? Do Wiparquet send their engineers from Germany to Singapore just to repair my laminate and to honour their warranty? Or do I send my laminate over there to Germany?
Since you like to touch on the issue of paid up capital, it is no secret that anyone can find out the details of any company in Singapore. For your information, Supreme Lion Marketing Pte Ltd has a total $475,000.00 paid up capital and $1,000,000.00 authorised capital. Meaning to say, if one day as a consumer I want to sue Supreme for some reason, the most that I can claim is $1,000,000.00. Well, to me that is better than none compared to suing a sole proprietor. If the owner of a sole proprietorship is staying in a HDB flat, I cannot even claim his house. And if he file for bankruptcy, there is nothing I can do.
And why do my FH and I not prefer to deal with businesses that are sole proprietorship and at the same time an agent for a certain brand. Our reasons (whether accepted by you or the general public or not) is that if the owner of the agent is cunning, he can simply take our hard-earned money (perhaps a few thousands dollars to you is not a lot) and flee the country. If that happens, I cannot sue the company because it is a sole proprietorship. I cannot claim for his house if it is a HDB flat. I can only claim his TVs, furnitures, etc. (if you want information about RAM Asia Marketing, you can always PM me, cos I have bought their business profile together with Supreme's)
When I mentioned that Supreme 12 mm boards are of AC3 class 31, I am not undermining that Wiparquet boards are inferior. I am just informing the general public here that there are two classes of AC3: class 21 and class 31. I did not even mention if class 21 or 31 is better. Hence I do not know why are you so apprehensive and eager to call up Gary to confirm that your laminates are of the same class/grade.
Though I applaud and appreciate your willingness to share, I kind of given the idea that you are protecting Wiparquet too much without giving any hard facts that it is really better than any other brands.
manylobang
New Member
wah, just got back from lunch and read such an interesting comment from you.
mmmmm.... i think you are getting very personal and i do not think that i want to pursue this matter in detail.... not shiok anymore, someone very upset.
however, just few points to share
1. i am not protecting any brand except that i have used wiparquet for more than 6 months and still happy with it. most of my friends who visited me complimented the flooring. thus i thought it would be very nice to share the good news.
2. i have to call gary cos i want to confirm that my flooring is having a high or higher abrasion class cos during his sales presentation, he assured me of the quality.
3. wah, you actually pay to get the instant info. or are you related in this trade???? for your info, having a high paid up or turnover is not as important as showing profitability in a business. CAO having millions also can crumple. since you so resourceful you should check on the P & L of the company. It is not surprising that a big company with a very high sales turnover may not be more profitable as compared with a mama stall owner.
4. International brand - i surrender to you. Ok, if you think that it is possible to compare proton cars with bmw. i have nothing to say. A more fair comparison is against powerdekor but still not fair cos powder dekor is very big in Asia and public listed in Singapore.
5. finally about hard facts, check with the sales person as it is their duty to prove it. although i managed to know more about laminate flooring i am still a layman in comparison... as you seems very professional in this field, you win.
i guess i will stay out of this cos NO SHIOK anymore.
mmmmm.... i think you are getting very personal and i do not think that i want to pursue this matter in detail.... not shiok anymore, someone very upset.
however, just few points to share
1. i am not protecting any brand except that i have used wiparquet for more than 6 months and still happy with it. most of my friends who visited me complimented the flooring. thus i thought it would be very nice to share the good news.
2. i have to call gary cos i want to confirm that my flooring is having a high or higher abrasion class cos during his sales presentation, he assured me of the quality.
3. wah, you actually pay to get the instant info. or are you related in this trade???? for your info, having a high paid up or turnover is not as important as showing profitability in a business. CAO having millions also can crumple. since you so resourceful you should check on the P & L of the company. It is not surprising that a big company with a very high sales turnover may not be more profitable as compared with a mama stall owner.
4. International brand - i surrender to you. Ok, if you think that it is possible to compare proton cars with bmw. i have nothing to say. A more fair comparison is against powerdekor but still not fair cos powder dekor is very big in Asia and public listed in Singapore.
5. finally about hard facts, check with the sales person as it is their duty to prove it. although i managed to know more about laminate flooring i am still a layman in comparison... as you seems very professional in this field, you win.
i guess i will stay out of this cos NO SHIOK anymore.
