Annulment Case & Owning EC

  • Thread starter confused husband
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confused husband

Guest
Need some advice from any of the experts here. Me and my wife have ROM for about 2 years now but have not have customary. Due to severe problems in our marriage, we are discussing to go for annulment. Problem is, we bought an EC (Executive Condo) about a year ago and it still have not TOP yet. We have not collected the keys. Anyone know of the legal implications of this? Do I return the EC to the developer or HDB? How much is the refund? Please help. Thanks.
 

stevetp1

New Member
Hi, If im not wrong, u have to pay the developer 35% of the purchased price in accordance to the Option to Purchase. If your unit is 400K then you will have to pay $135K to the developer. Not forgetting if you take the 30k grant from government, you have to pay back with interest. Hope that ans your question.
 
C

confused husband

Guest
hiaks!!! so much?!!??! die.....haiz, i still end up losing so much money if i can't keep it? but it's not that i dun wanna keep it, it's because i'm getting annulment that's why i can't keep it.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Hi Confused Husband,

that's the HDB regulations. Before signing on the dotted line, one has to be aware of the consequences of their commitments. It is a sad but unevitable situation.

Think of it logically, everyone that wants to back out of their property purchase probably have very valid reasons too. HDB needs to draw the line clear. Otherwise, everyone that changes their mind can conveniently use annulment as the reason.
 

piggy999

New Member
Developer has the right to penalise you 25% of the purchase price if you abort the purchase + the legal fees + bank interest + admin fee.

In order to avoid that, you or your wife has to find someone to take over the unit - meaning change of one owner. Then you wont be penalised.

Of course you need to also pay for the change and legal fees pertaining to all these.

Best is to iron out the problems with your wife and see if you can work things out or not to avoid all these. Hope it helps.
 
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confused husband

Guest
25% of the purchase price? wow, that's steep. I'm still trying to work things out, both with my wife and the developer. Thanks for your help.
 

chaihot5

New Member
Hi confused husband

Why don't you tell us your marriage probems and see whether we could be of help. Marriage is a commitment, not child's play. Im sure initially when you proposed to your wife, you feel that she's the only woman to you in the world.

It all boils down to Trust and Communication. I hope your marriage do work out and save lots of unneccesary problems.

Cheers
 

intoxicated

New Member
hi everyone, guess this is my 1st post in the forum...

i have been reading this forum for the past few days, looking at the lives, pain and joy of everyone. not sure what to say, what to ask for in this forum. i guess i just want to share with everyone what i am going through.

i have been married for about 6mths, and i am looking at annulment for the next few months. Issues like in-laws, lost love, and possible 3rd party surfaced over the past few months. i am not too sure how much i would like to drop in this post, but whenever i look at my wife, hear her voice, i just cant help but feel that i am terribly hurt and life just circled back to the start state.

friends and family members have been great during this period of time. i just hope to share the following with everyone in the forum.

Men r unfaithful becos they feel unneeded. Women r unfaithful becos they dun feel loved.

Life is a struggle, only dead fish go with the flow.

Everything in life takes two hands to clap, whenever we complain about others, try to take a step back and look at ourselves.
 
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readingforum

Guest
For only 6 mths, already got 3rd party problems.. that's sad. Try counselling yet?
 

lonestar

New Member
hi all
anyone knows a good lawyer that has high rate of success at annulment?
we have a new hdb flat involved, but not moved in. supposed to move in 2 wks time. yet, we kept arguing since married.

we argued alot even b4 marrying, but he promised he'll change. but it did not happen.
now, he intend to let his mom shift in after 2-3 yrs, and did not even deem to discuss with me. he say mom is above me, i should not even try to pit against her.yet, all along, i have been led to believe it is only e 2 of us staying together. my mom is currently staying with me, yet he feels that my mom should move to my bro's place, while he, HER FILIAL SON, should have his mom stay with us. i cannot believe that he actually did not bother to discuss with me and did not tell me over these 2 yrs. how to trust him?
now he say, well, she hasn't move in yet. this is future, may or may not happen, why argue now. so if it does happen 2 yrs later? by then, if i argue oso no use, cos he noe the longer we married, the less likely i will divorce, especially if have kids. it feels like he is only waiting for my bargaining power to reduce when i aged!
sounds like trading...
 

cecilialim

Active Member
yina, if you feel that the person is not giving your parents the respect they should get.. that guy better be gone with. for me, i can accept my hb saying his mum is above me, but to say that my mother shold live with my brother after i got married but his mum can stay with us, i will kick him off... its character fault i think... he's just a mummy boy
 

lonestar

New Member
u r quite right. sometimes i sit back, i look at other couples, there is nothing wrong with living with his mom, nothig wrong he put his mom above. but its e way he did it, said it, prioritise his family above mine, that made me feel he will never protect me if his family ever hold anything against me.
sure he will yell at me instead regardless if i'm right...
i even hinted to my own mom we both agreed no moms will move in with us. my mom agreed, yet his mom tried to step in. now i'm the unfilial one. for all the sacrifice i did for him, did not seem worthed it...
 

sapphire20s

New Member
"to find someone to take over the unit - meaning change of one owner" this apply to EC. but not HDB flat rite? for HDB flat, it has to be return to them and they will launch during the next wis correct?
 

ladygarnet

New Member
hi johnny,

just wanna ask... so on wat grounds did u file an annulment with ur wife? That she has fallen for someone??

Sorry for bringing up ur sad past but I need some help here.
 

don_don

New Member
Hi all, just wanna ask if anyone here know about the procedure of returning flat to hdb? do we have to pay anything?
 

5stars

New Member
You can make an appeal through HDB.

My friend managed to sell his house even though it fall short of the minimum 5 years period. Rule is that you need to hold for 5 years, but you can appeal.

I dun think HDB wish to see you lose all your hard earned money in your CPF. Otherwise, see your MP for assistance
 

lonely_tree

New Member
actually its sad siah..but i can relate to some of the problems also, me n my wife ROM for 4 yrs, married for 1+yrs..tinking of going thru separation/divorce also. she can't stay in the same roof wif my mom, and i can't let my mom stay on her own as she's all alone. slowly my wife moved back to her parents, and slowly she started drifting apart from me. we ve discussed separation/divorce, and i tink HDB rule is that 5 yrs no sale of flat. but like 5stars mentioned, can appeal lah, or alternatively sell flat back to HDB, at 90% of current flat valuation. but i still feel that if can, it ll be best to save the marriage lah. after all, it was fate that brought 2 individuals from amongst the millions of ppl in this small island together mah
 

pinkygal

New Member
Hi all,
I need advice.
My EC TOP about 4 years ago, we have fully renovated it but did not move in at all. We managed to seek extension from HDB to delay submission of marriage cert till now. My bf is outstation and we have tried for years but seems that marriage is already out of the question. We kept the house tidy and paid all the mortgage and maintenance fee all these years in hopes that we could be married one day. Since it's confirmed hopeless now, how can I settle the house?
- Do I seek help from the developer? But it's been so long and I suspect it's already out of the hands of the developer cos we seem to have signed all outstanding legal docs.
- Or I should turn to HDB to help? Which dept or is it the town council?
- Is it confirmed that without family nucleus, there is absolutely no possibility of keeping the house on my own? due to any compassionate grounds?
- Do I have to return flat to HDB? At what price? Or I can sell in the open market? Any penalty?

Thank you all.
 

pinkygal

New Member
Hi all,
I need advice.
My EC TOP about 4 years ago, we have fully renovated it but did not move in at all. We managed to seek extension from HDB to delay submission of marriage cert till now. My bf is outstation and we have tried for years but seems that marriage is already out of the question. We kept the house tidy and paid all the mortgage and maintenance fee all these years in hopes that we could be married one day. Since it's confirmed hopeless now, how can I settle the house?
- Do I seek help from the developer? But it's been so long and I suspect it's already out of the hands of the developer cos we seem to have signed all outstanding legal docs.
- Or I should turn to HDB to help? Which dept or is it the town council?
- Is it confirmed that without family nucleus, there is absolutely no possibility of keeping the house on my own? due to any compassionate grounds?
- Do I have to return flat to HDB? At what price? Or I can sell in the open market? Any penalty?

Thank you all.
 

zany_dog

New Member
Hi pinkygal,

Hope this reply is not too late.

When you say that you managed to obtain extension from HDB to delay submission of marriage cert till now, I suppose HDB is now pressing you to submit the marriage certificate.

When you took possession of the EC, did you give some form of undertaking to the developer or HDB stating your agreement to the conditions imposed for letting you take possession even though you cannot produce the marriage certificate? HDB's remedy will be to ask you to carry out what you have undertaken to do.

From what you described, it is very likely that you already have the title to the EC in your names. If so, the developer would be out of the picture already and you should approach HDB - it is the HDB area office that your EC is located for help. If title is still not in your names yet because of the marriage certificate issue, you should approach the developer.

I think that you or your BF may have a chance of retaining the EC if you can form a family nucleus or if your BF can do so and the party not retaining agrees to the proposal. You have to appeal to HDB on compassionate grounds.

Even if you may have "lived" for more than 5 years, it is unlikely that you can sell in the open market because in the first place, you did not fulfil the eligibility conditions for your purchase of the EC.

You will also have to consider other issues like whether the bank will be prepared to continue the loan to the party retaining etc.

I'm sure you can find a solution if you try hard enough and good luck.
 

dreamscape

New Member
Hi,

I have a somewhat similar problem too. My bf had applied for pinnacles@duxton with his then gf 4yrs ago. However, things doesnt worked out for them. They had already chosen and paid the deposit, wiping out his entire CPF.

We are getting married end of year. But HDB doesnt allow change of name under the F/FS scheme. We had been hoping for HDB to change their rules that allow me to take over the ownership. Appeals had also been put up.

It so hard now for sincere buyers to ballot for a flat. Their are over 5700 people applying for 490 units in recent April ballot. Chances are so low, resale flats are so expensive and having to forfeit the deposit he made, its extrememly difficult for us to get a flat.

Have HDB ever allow change of names under F/FS scheme? They seemed rather strict on their rules and we are getting quite disappointment each time we see the officer.

Can anyone help?
 

alice_in

New Member
Hi, dreammy, listen, have you tried to contact his ex fiance about this situation? Because they were in this project together, and I think she may be able to help somehow, especially if your bf needs her signature in order to transfer the ownership...
Try talking to her and see what she replies
 

dovey123

New Member
Hi...

In a somewhat similar situation here, hope that I may be allowed to rant it out here as I have been very vexed over this situation.

I purchased a DBSS flat with my ex-bf and now they r informing us if we forgo, we will be penalized 20% of the purchase price. We have not ROM-ed. The developers are pressurizing us to let them if we r forfeiting the flat (How to??? I can't afford to repay that kinda money) or whether we r going ahead to ROM and if so, we have to show proof that we r going to. Has anyone been in a similar situation before and managed to come out "unscathed"? I have tried many attempts at appealing via MP but so far the situation looks bad. They gave us only 2 options - forfeit the house and pay $$$$$ or find another party to be eligible under the fiance/fiancee scheme. Both r not feasible. I hope someone can show me the light in the darkness I am facing now. They are pressurizing us to reply within days and yet I have no answer for them.
 

powder

Active Member
pls check if it's a definite for u to pay the 20%, from what i understand u can just forfeit whatever amount u have paid. what stage of payment are u at and what have u signed?
 

dovey123

New Member
the developer & hdb r threatening us with that.i did hear that some ppl managed to jus forfeit the deposit but developer & hdb r not offering us that option though we appealed. i am very despondent 'bout the situation. the place is at or almost at TOP stage already.
 

dovey123

New Member
actually I didn't know the EC had sorta the same conditions (penalty of certain percentage of the price of the house) written in the S&P agreement until I came across this thread. as far as i know, for normal hdb flats, there's no such clause, only have to surrender the house and forfeit whatever amt paid. hopefully there've been ppl who r in the same situation (broke up/did not ROM) and thus unable to complete the sale under the fiance/fiancee scheme that can share their experience with me.
 

powder

Active Member
suggest u bring the terms and conditions to a lwayer to have a read... and know your rights. at least from there u know wat to do... just becos those guys are forcing u doesn't mean that they have the legal right to impose, Just make sure that u know your rights.

i'm surprised u're looking for pple to share experience when this can be a black & white issue... are u able to find someone to read thru the conditions and advise u from there? i;m scpetical tat the pple chasing u know their rights too, and u have not specifically mentioned the terms n conditions, so would like to explore tat with u first...
 

dovey123

New Member
hi powder, thanks for your replies. Honestly i've never thought that i could dispute the clause written in the s&p agreement. I thought i didn't have any other rights as that's what ppl told me that when i signed on the dotted line means that i am binded my that clause in the agreement - paying the penalty. Do u think that going to a lawyer can help things? Sidetrack a lil, do u happen to know any lawyers that r good but dun charge through the nose that i could go to?

As for the terms and conditions, basically there's a clause in the contract stating that should we not be able to complete the sale, we r liable to pay them 20% of the purchase price. So they have binded us with that very clause.

I asked if anyone had similar experience because i hope that by seeing wad ppl have done it can help steer me in the some direction. Afterall, it may seem duh tat i say it but i've never been in such a fix before...
Very sad that things have to take such a turn.
 

powder

Active Member
i tend to be more thorough with terms and conditions, occupational habit. tat's why i try to read thru everything there is to know my right.. yes at face-value it does sound like u are liable. But no harm having a professional vet thru it... i'm not sure of the costs, but thee's likely to be a mutually agreed lawyer for the transaction, if there is, u might wanna start from there. else seek out one of those lawyers situated in hdb hub dealing with such transactions, and ask them for a consult... i dun think it's gonna cost much to be honest...

Just explore tat route in the meantime... never leave any stones unturned. u wouldn't wanna incur a heavy penalty only to find out u could have prevented it from a different angle, ok?

personally i dun trust pple who wanna see the sale to go thru... i will always seek a 3rd party legal opinion. i'm sure there are others like u... u might not be able to get tat info from them cos they might be scared like u... so why not take it upon yourself to find out first, and if there's another avenue, u can be the one advising others facing your situation... how abt that?
 

powder

Active Member
i tried to check out some FAQs on DBSS purchase but nothing specific... also dun know which stage u're at. here's what i got...

--------------------------------------------------------
Q: Do I need to return the CPF Housing Grant if I cancel my purchase of the Design, Build & Sell Scheme (DBSS) flat after I have signed the Sale and Purchase Agreement?

A: Yes. If you have:

bought the DBSS flat with your spouse under the Public Scheme with the CPF Housing Grant and later annulled your marriage; or

bought the DBSS flat with your fiancé/fiancée under the Fiancé/Fiancée Scheme with the CPF Housing Grant and are unable to produce the marriage certificate as required.
When returning the CPF Housing Grant, you and your ex-spouse or ex-fiancé/ex-fiancée will be subject to the following conditions:

You will have to return the CPF Housing Grant together with accrued interest.

You will have to repay any shortfall in cash.

If the full amount cannot be recovered at the point of repayment, the outstanding amount will be treated as a debt owed to the Government.

Both of you will also not be eligible to rent, buy or take over the ownership of another HDB flat, DBSS flat or Executive Condominium unit until you have paid up the debt in full with interest.

--------------------------------------------------------
Q: How will the CPF Housing Grant be treated if I do not complete the purchase of the Design, Build & Sell Scheme (DBSS) flat. For example, if I do not sign the Sale and Purchase Agreement?

A: You must return the CPF Housing Grant with accrued interest to HDB if:

(a) you do not sign the Sale and Purchase Agreement; or

(b) you are found later to be not eligible:

for the CPF Housing Grant; or
to buy the DBSS flat.

--------------------------------------------------------

think need to speak to someone....
 

dovey123

New Member
powder, thanks so much for finding the faq on the cpf grants for me. I shall be seeking legal advice hopefully over this weekend n perhaps then i might have a clearer picture of the situation.

The flat is currently at TOP stage already btw.

Honestly, i have been very scared and pretty much in denial on the house issues after the break-up. It just seems like this insurmountable problem. Yes u r right i need to speak to someone...

Thanks powder
btw, you mentioned your occupational hazard. U're a lawyer?
 

powder

Active Member
nope, me a sort of professional-negotiator so need to read/know lotsa terms n clauses. ya just look for a credible lawyer who deals with houses and at least familarize yourself with your contracts, what u can and cannot do. dun give up until u've exhausted all avenues and loopholes...

most things seem insurmountable becos we do not know every avenue we can employ... ignorance and hearsay causes more poor decisions than any other reasons, so at least Even if u're in a corner, get confirmation that u're indeed in a corner.

in the meantime u might wanna check out other forums for young couples to just try your luck and see if there's any interested parties to take over your house. (based on their advice to u "or find another party to be eligible under the fiance/fiancee scheme")

keep us updated. dun procrastinate ok?
 

dovey123

New Member
professional negotiator - sounds dangerous and top-secret.


if my designated lawyers r hdb's, does that mean i have to go thru hdb to talk to the lawyer? I'm confused on this. Or should i seek external counsel from say lawyers from say HOH lawfirm? Do u have any idea how much such a consultation will cost?

U mentioned other forums for young couples - i'm quite an idiot when it comes to wat forums r in existence. Could u share with me any u might know of?

What they meant by finding another party is for either of us to find someone else to purchase the flat with - meaning marry, so that the purchase would be still valid under the fiance/fiancee scheme. I m seeing someone at the moment, but things r complicated by the fact tat the ex-bf refuses to allow me to buy the flat with anyone but the ex-bf himself as he claims he can't bear for me to live in the house with anyone else. Even if hdb allows me to buy the flat with my parents, the ex still wun hear of it. Very headache right powder?
 

powder

Active Member
hey your ex doesn't sound so rite, tat will defintiely complicate matters... i was thinking tat if it's the both of u in it together to withdraw then at least an alternative can be sourced, if he's preventing it, it does get more complicated for sure... i would think parents are a more viable alternative if they are willing... as for your current guy, i highly suggest not to get together into such a huge commitment this way... it may come back to haunt u...

else when all fails, u guys go ahead to take the flat as a married couple but with understanding to divorce later... end of the day it's just a paper. BUT this required Very Mature Amicable thinking on both of u... purely transactional and nothing else. but ls ignore this last bit...

no u dun have to go thru hdb, hdb hub has a few lawyers... i think i used colin goh or something at hdb hub, might have a few more around, i dun think they're the best but by the sheer volume of transactions they do, i'm sure they would have seen similar cases... and from a legal point of view, they would be best suited to advise. might come to nothing, but it's an avenue i'll definitely seek. i dun think such consultations will cost more than $300 (i'm just guessing here), u can ask before u ask...

other forums... u have to do a search on yahoo.sg, i saw a few when i searched just now, but did not go in to check if any particular ones which u can post... u explore abit on this ok?

i negotiate on a professional scale for specialized businesses... not secret agent type lah...
 

dovey123

New Member
powder i've made an appointment for lawyer's consultation for this evening. thank you so much for making me "wake up my idea" and stop procrastinating.

yes my ex is making things a tad difficult. i really am hoping for the best of the worst outcomes i guess.
 

powder

Active Member
hey i'm really happy to hear that, pls bring all documents. i hope tat there's something that can be sorted out. but let's take it one step at a time, if u're in a corner, confirm that u're in a corner and not just believe the pple telling u.

Knowing that u have no options can only help u make a better decision than assuming u have no options. and then we take it from there...

when all else fails, Remember this - the best problems to have are actually Money problems... becos they can be solved by money - something that takes time to earn... sounds cheesy i know, but it's very very very True.

let me know the progress!
 

amadman

New Member
For dreamscape:
Some time ago you posted over a comment about the flat your b/f has with his ex fiance.
I was wondering how the situation turned out? Did you managed to solve anything with his ex? I am asking because I have a friend in a similar situation, the problem went unsolved because he draged it to long, and now there are some complications, basically he left his ex to clear everything, including the debts... I need to advise my friend about it and I would appreciate your input, as you have been through a similar situation...
 

ashleyethel

Active Member
Try this lawyer... I got my done smoothly and without any question from the judge

William Ong Law Firm
+65 65384727

His law firm is at Chinatown Point.
 

amadman

New Member
Thanks, Ash... I am trying to keep this out of the court unless really necessary, as it would be a lot of stress for my friend, she would rather settle up; the problem is that the guy does not even want to hear about it...

Basically, what happened is that he borrowed some money from her relatives in order to pay his share. After they had some problems, he disappeared and broke all contacts both with my friend and with the person that he borrowed money from (that was more than 1 years ago); the apartment was left "hanging", and the matter went unresolved until now.

What's even worse is that, after having this "cool-down" period, the guy now wants to get married with someone else (without even bothering to tell my friend = his ex fiance, who was waiting for him to... cool down!), and he tried to get my friend to agree to transfer the apartment on the name of his future bride (after he did so behind my friend's back, appealing to the HDB for it, and only contacted my friend after the HDB people advised her about what he was up to). However, he was not willing to come up with a single cent of the money that he owes to my friend's relative from the start...

Now I am trying to find some way to leverage that guy into paying back, as this is making my friend (and me) very sad/angry...
 

asphalt2011

New Member
Hello Pinkygal,

Regarding your EC situation 2 years ago, I would like to know how the situation turned out? Did you manage to solve the problem by appealing? I am in a somewhat same situation right now and there are no positive alternatives. Please advise.
 

lostprincess

New Member
Hi there,

Was wondering if anyone went through similar 'ordeal' and what was the outcome? I'm currently going through similar situation.

Bought an EC under the Fiance/Fiancee scheme and have settled the initial 20% downpayment. Took 30k CPF grant as well.

Now that the relationship didn't work out, we are in the midst of revoking our purchase. Anyone appealed to MP and managed to pay a lighter 'penalty'?
 

tomasulu

Member
I hate hdb and ec flats for cases such as these. Applying a severe financial penalty in support of its social engineering goals is not what a government agency should be doing. At least with private properties you've the option of holding on or selling it in the open market with no strings attached.

I'd go talk to hdb directly and make a plea. I suspect most lawyers would take the easy money by advising you by the rule book.
 

cghp86

New Member
Dear all,

Need some advice, my situation is similar to pinkygal's.

Bought an EC with my ex fiancé back in October 2011, unit TOP in May 2014.

As we were not married then (but had a wedding date confirmed in February 2015), we signed an undertaking form issued to us by the developer, indicating that we must produce our marriage cert by mid February 2015 in exchange for the keys to the unit. Of course we eagerly signed this and received our keys in early September 2014.

In November 2014, 3 months before the wedding, my ex fiancé told me that he wanted to call off the wedding as he felt like he was not ready and our differences were irreconcilable.

I was devastated and on top of that, had the EC to be concerned about. He told me he would take full responsibility for the decision and pay me back my share of the 20% deposit and the installments I had paid so far - all these amounted to about 90k. He handed me a cheque of 90k shortly after.

Fast forward and it is now March 2016, our names are still stuck on the EC and the bank loan. The bank has already disbursed 100% of purchase price to the developer. My ex is paying all of the loan installments since Jan 2015 and so far it has amounted to 35k.

We have appealed to HDB countless times, to have penalty reduced to 5%, to resell within 5 years and constantly got rejected. My ex has also gotten MP's help but to no avail. Now the validity of our ownership of the unit is also questioned as hdb says we did not provide marriage cert. At the point, They are putting up a case for my ex to retain the unit alone but I am not confident, as it has been 6 months since they first said this is the option they want to pursue.

Can someone please advice or help if you have gone through similar situation? What are my liabilities having my name on a bank loan, an EC? Now with the ownership being questioned?

Thanks for your help all.
 

leemrs

New Member
Hi all, sorry if it's a little off the topic but.. Anybody still selling/transferring their EC? My husband and I are looking for our first home. Pls PM if there's any and we dont mind looking at helping and taking over if the unit is suitable (and if possible)...
 

Fil

New Member
Hi Leemrs

Are you still looking for EC unit? Me and my Husband recently just placed our 5% downpayment on a unit however we decided not to proceed due to unforeseen circumstances.
 

leemrs

New Member
Hi Leemrs,

I am also letting go of an EC unit. Have private messaged you. Thanks.

Hi there! I think im having some problems and cant seems to see your message. I had private messaged u as well.. Could you pls reply from there? Thanks in advance!
 
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