just to check with you guys who has your air con installed by H**g T*r? What is the brand of the rubber insulation used by them? Cos i called them up regarding the type of rubber insulation used and they said they are using Allflex Class 1. Is this a reliable brand for rubber insulation?
Hi bk, mine is Mit sys 3 inverter at SGD 2,450 but at that time i placed the order, it was the cheapest quote i gotten. Is it becos of hot weather that why now prices are rising? I ever heard before from one shop saying that in cooler weather, aircon prices are lower. I still wondering if that is true..
yup I guess so. Heard it is due to demand, the manufacturer n shop want to have part of the pie.
I should be placing my order soon with another shop but will only install on Jun/jul, much cheaper with 3 years workmanship warranty
Evrybdy, Hongtxx price gd sia. i called to ask abt their daiseikai (toshiba non inverter sys 3) the price they quote is $1850 only!but i nvr ask abt the insulation rubber class. hmm i doubt my id can match this price loh
well i for brand wise i think its alright as log as they are using at least a class 1 rubber insulation.
i had my daikin installed by honxtax and they are good. very punctual, came earlier to have things put outside my house around 10 so that they can start by 10.30 am just like what is written in the invoice arrive at 10.30. and they are fast and also very clean in their installation.
i must say that i am very satisfied with the job they did.
and for the during the sale wise,. they are very transparent with their prices.
at first they might sound a bit more expensive but you go around and ask for the same specs with the other shops that quote you cheaper. but to get the same specs they will +++ and then become more ex than honxtax .
plus they take their time to go through and listen to your needs and they always take a neutral stand on which brands is the best careful not to be biased but ask them for their opinion they will but shouldn take that for its exact but with a pinch of salt as that represents the salesperson and not the entirety of the brand itself and thats their stand too.
also they bothered to sit down and listen to how my air con pipes is going to run even in the early stages where i was still scouting around and that they arent like other shops where they will say when we contractor come then they kno what to do.
Honxtax salesperson took the time and have a look at my floor plan , calculated and also gave advice on where to place the air con and that i think is sincerity.
plus they are the runnig that energy efficinet information centre thingy so they know best about the consumptions wise etc.. so you can ask them too yeah.
for toshiba a/c i would say that it is alright... just that what exactly do you want. like easy clean then go fdor mit if you are looking for the aller thingy then maybe toshiba might be your choice
as for me i chose daikin cos my father trusts daikin more cos of its long history of reliability even though its pricier than the two other brands and i dun see the need of the much hyped easy clean and neither do i need those very techy cleaning stuffs,
well the most imporatnt thing to decide on inverter or non inverter are the following
1) capacity of cooling needed
2) configurations (some configurations is only possiblke with inverter)
3) limit on electricity if you are operating is 8.5 then for sure you need inverter but with higher loading then non inverter is possible
4) usage patterns. do advise on the possible usage patterns eg.
rooms 1 (night time 8 hours daily)
rooms 2 (night time 8 hours daily)
and also the overlapping hours in use at the moment.. then we shall see if buying inverter would be more saving yeah>
cos well if you are saying parts will become loose.. the only thing is that how often do we really need to open that part up as in the flap. i think maybe once in every quarter. so yeah in its entire lifetime of 7 years (average lifespans of air con you would only open it like maybe 28 times)
and thing do come loose evey with everyday operation then isnt that the same with the louvre< that one operate all the time? should that one disintegrate first but you see most of the time the louvre dun give problem mah so its done.
of course im not denying that is no possibility but its marginal.
if you need to have the feature then go ahead, but if you think its not neccasy as you will call the servicing every quarter to clean up they will also clean the part for you that part then done dun need to spend extra to get that extra feature.
its about what you want. each machine has its pros and cons for sure.
weekday and weekend
masterbed rm - 8hrs daily
room1 (study rm) - seldom on
room2 - 8hrs daily
Living rm - afternoon
also i have cover up the masterbed rm door and covert 1 of the rm to a study rm and its connect to my masterbed rm thus mayb can share the air-con as my masterbed rm also not very big (2.9x2.9m) as i have done WIW in it.
i think living rm 18k btu will do...
any brand to recommend? also i hear that inverter use electronics parts then non-inverter so afraid when spolit will cost a lot to repair...
alright i am going to do some calculations for yuo. but please do note that this is talking about the perfect or ideal conditions okie? and should not be taken hard and fast
Background; room takes about at least several hours to cool say we take 3 hours to reach desired temperature.
and for inverter once they have reached the desired temperature they will run at minimum and hence later i will show you the differential
for non inverter they will either go maximum or nothing (though care should be exercised that when nothing although my calculations would indicate 0 or nil this is not to be taken as operation in circulation mode (when compressor is off do still consume electricity of several hundred watts too yeah) so just to let you know,
also FYi i am taking the current rate for electricity tariff as $0.2049 per kwh
also for the comparison im going to use the data for inverter system from mitsubishi and non inverter from panasonic would require 2 system 1x system 3+ 1x system 1 for the hall as non inveter cannot support combinations of 9k and 18k at one go yeah.
also i shall take the comparison for over a period of 365 days okie? and then compare the costs in 7 years time to simulate the lifespan of the air con and the cost savings etc. to see if its more worth it to take non inverter or inverter cos of the higher initial outlay costs.
365 days with 52 weeks and hence 104 weekend days okie?
with the infor you have given i shall take the operation of simulataneous of 2 rooms the mbr and room 2 at the same time alright? anbd the living room in the afternoon i shall take it as say 5 hours? every sat and sun?
Inverter - system 4 with mxy-4a28va and 3msxy-ga10 + 1x msxy-ga18
running 3 hours maximum power and 5 hours at min as explained
MBR+rm 2 3h x 1.89 x 0.2049 = 1.161783
5h x 0.6 x 0.2049 = 0.6147
total = $1.77483
365 days = $647.81295
7 years = $4534.69065
this is for two rooms for 8 hours usage daily charge.
for living room
same 3 hours cool at max and 2 hours at minumum
3h x 1.23 x 0.2049 = 0.756081
2h x 0.48 x 0.2049 = 0.196704
total = $0.952785 per day
104 days = $99.08964
7 years = $693.62748
total cost in 365 days = $746.90259
total cost in 7 years = $5228.31813
non inverter we shall take 3 hours at maximum powe to cool and the balance of the 5 hours we are going to take it that the compressor is off for about 1.5 hour (where the temperature is reached) and rest of the 3.5 hour is at maximum.
and for the hall since its 5 hours im going to take 3 hours at maximum and the balance 2 hours fully at maximum.
system 3 CS-9dzwx3 + cu-3c20dkh
system 1 cs -18dkz + cu-c18dkz
2 bedrooms per night
6.5h x 1.850 x 0.2049 = $ 2.4639225
Cost for one night is $ 2.4639225
Cost for one year 365 days is = $899.3317125
cost for 7 years = $6295.3219875
cost for the halls
one day of operation
5x 1.730x 0.2049 = $1.772385
for one day its $1.772385
for one year 104 days = 184.32804
for 7 years = $1290.29628
Total for both rooms and living room for one year is = $1083.6957525
total for 7 years = $7585.6182675
savings for one year from getting inverter versus getting non inverter.
Saving for seven years from getting inverter versys getting non inverter
BUT This is not the entire savings.
You have to take things into considerations such as i dun have the other other inputs where you have please put it in yourself and then you can see the real savings.
this is what you need
1) the total cost of fixing a system 4 inverter system
2) total cost of fixing up a non inverter system 3 + single split of the 18k unit.
find out the cost and then do the following:
Inverter price - Non inverter systemS prices = savings from initial high inverter system
because the inverter sytem cost more, it saves you more too.. so you need to take the initial extra money that you need to fork out at the beginning stage and then you discount off the savings that you might have had if you had used the inverter system.
when you do that then it will be the actual saving.
cos you spend more then you save more. but when yuo even out? is it really save you more you still spend more cos the inverter cost more to buy in the beginning.
So take the savings you will have from 7 years of operating the inverter unit and then take away from the amount that you initially paid more for the the inverter system.
$2357.3001375 - (extra cost of fixing inverter) = actual savings
do note that if when you buy the non inverter systems the 3+1 system is more expensive than getting the system 4 then the savings is as is.
we come to that once tou have the figures.
this is what i have for the quotes okie
MXY-4A28VA / MSXY-GA10VA x 3 / MSXY-GA18VA
5,118 Btu/hr x 3 + 10,236 Btu/hr
non inverter systems
MUX-20TV / MS-A10VD x 3
9,000 Btu/hr + 6,000 Btu/hr x 2
and a system 1 for the 18k btu
MU-A18VD / MS-A18VD
hence total price for non inverter systems is
$1800.00 + $1300.00 = $3100.00.
so now we take the difference
inverter -non inverter = extra cost
$3490-$3100 = $390
looking at the initial outlay costs it seemd that you can actually break even you initial outlay cos within the first 2 year.
waht i mean by break even is the point where instead of paying more for the electricity every month by saving more during the installation you are actually saving. get what i mean?
say one year = $336.793135 - 390 = you still haven break even yet
then 2 years = $673.58627- 390= 283.58627 (you have already saved 283.58627 from your second year of operating in terms of electricity bill yuo are paying
then the seven year =$2357.3001375 - $390= 1967.3001375
SALUTE...solid analysis...i now get the whole figure...i shld be getting the inverter unit as i use air-con quite often. Also i was told that inverter compressor has more electronics chips in it therefore if spolit repair cost more then non-inverter rite?...
i was quote for Mit starmax EasyClean inverter at 3550nett....gd price? no charge at extra trips and unlimited pipping...
May i know there are how many models for Mit StarMax inverter air-con? Is it call Mit StarMax EasyClean?
yes,the cost of high tech chipboards are expensive and hence they are expensive to replace. but then again if you buy a reliable brand what are the chances of it breaking down. its almost remote.except well for wear and tear thats pretty normal
Like my previous air con which is the national the one made in japan that lasted for for 15 years without a hitch. and it operates everyday 365 days all 3 rooms operating more than 12 hours daily.
but i just had it replaced with a daikin which is a very solid reliable brand. hence premium price.
Well for that quote i think its alright provided that you compare what are they giving you.
check with them waht insulation class are they giving you. what is the drainage pipe size they are giving you? is it the 13mm or the 16mm. get them to have all 16mm all way round and not 13mm in some part and other parts 16mm. make sure its all 16mm.
and for the insulation you might want to opt for a rubber insulation at least class 1 key word. at least.
and for the copper pipes its according to the specs in the engineering data from the respective air con brands.
for mitsubishi starmex there is 2 kinds.
Both are inverter.
Difference is one is with easy clean while the other is non easy clean (old design)
get them to write the details and specifications for everything right to the tiniest details such as 2x installation, size of pipes, installation, supply the correct model of air con... etc and also delivery.. etc. all to be in black and white. anything wrong you can take them out legally.
** please take not due to restictions in the brands and all.. please cut and paste the name and then change the spelling for serva to serve... yeah thanks!
Thumbs up for H*** T**! They just came to lay the piping for my aircon. Was punctual and very professional as staff was able to advise if the way i want the pipe to be laid is feasible and also provides suggestion.
i have posted in the other topic of this singaporebrides forum with regards to the class 1 and class0 its more on the fire retardant thingy so yeah read on from there okie?
okie for the 16mm pipes its not a must. i must say that some of the manufacturer still stipulate a 13mm pipe.
but i would rather you get a 16mm pipe throughout the reason being that in any case of say your drainage pipe is choked due to slump etc. with a bigger diameter, it would make the maintenance a bit easier to flush the sludge out as there the built up is like you know the drain where there is sand blockage, then the is a settling like a hill then it drops off again, with the height clearance and width clearance of a bigger diameter, you can normally flush it out easier than say if you want to flush out with a smaller diameter.
this could be also a good start to having the invoice detailings yeah?
Here is a list of what i think may be relevant to include in the sales invoice when you pay:
1. Brand New machines, packaging to be opened in front of customer
2. State quantity and model number of compressor and fan coils clearly.
3 2 installations done with no extra charge
4. Site survey (no extra charge)
5. Vacuum process (state amount of time of vacuum)
6. Unlimited copper piping AND trunking
7. Class 1 PSB rated insulation, 1/2 inch thickness
8. 16mm Drain pipe for all fancoils
9. Grade 23 copper used for all, sizing of pipe according to catalog, bent with proper tools, BCA workers, etc.
10. All labour and transport included
11. No further charges to be incurred by homeowner
I will explain my logic for some of these items
1. Make sure the machines are new and that they open in front of you. I am sure the incidence of companies installing used systems is low but if the company wants to try to install a used unit, at least they know you will be looking out for this and hopefully discourage them. Examine the boxes etc carefully.
7. Most of the time, they will use 3/8 inch insultation. It is quite ok unless your pipes are going to be hidden behind furniture/wardrobe etc. If you use a thinner insulation, the chances of condensation will be higher.
Also, i heard that R410 system pipes tend to be colder than R22 pipes, so it may be better to use thicker insulation.
When i checked with one supplier, they charged extra $50 per fancoil to upgrade to 1/2 inch.
9. As AhNaiz said, R410 systems have higher pressures than R22. So using thicker copper might make sense.
Any comments are welcome!
p/s this is taken from another forum
i would advise you to go there and post to ahnaiz if you have any question he is a better expert than i am
Do u know if it is advisable to use Grade 23 copper piping for R410 compressor? How come in another thread in this forum it says that using Grade 23 copper piping very dangerous, and will burst?! O_O!!!!!!!!
Its not important where he is from.... most importantly the advice is sound and good... and helps all the forumers like us. At the end of the day, the choice of which aircon company lies with ourselves.
I am customer from Best Tech. Although their price is cheaper than other company, they are extremely lousy. This is my personal experience. I have a system 3 LG air con system. All the 3 units have problem. Air con unit at my study room was leaking because the pipe was tilted in the wrong direction. Air con unit at my guest room was leaking because they installed on an uneven wall. Water is condensating at the master bed room trunking. I am sick of them. They are here 3 times. And the problem are not fixed yet.
So sorry to heard that ur installation from Best Tech is lousy. I am also a customer of Best Tech and mine is system 4 LG air con and so far ok leh.... i wonder are you on site when they initially first install ur aircon? For my case, my contractor is on site to ensure that they installed it professionally.....
Hi guys can u help to advise me on my aircon?
I'm living with my wife.
So only 2 person in the house.
Looking for aircon either inverter or normal one.
On MBR for 8 hrs daily and 1 of the room for 2-3hrs.