Additional Info on Housing

enxuan

New Member
If you are getting a house, usually HDB is co own half - half to you and spouse (By default). Actually, you can choose Tenancy in Common if either party is interested in getting a higher share for security reason... etc.

For example, i jus got a resale flat. However, i suggested to hubby to let me have 65% share and him 35% of the flat. Reason being that if in any event of divorce or seperation, i have a bigger share to give to my children. I can also jus buy over his share easily if our marriage didnt work out.

In any unforeseen circumstances, if my hubby departs earlier in this world, his 35% will also be divided by half (17.5%) to me, and the other half equally to all his children. Meaning, balance 17.5% divided by 3 = 5.8% for each children.

However if in the event that i passed away earlier, as i have written a will, all my shares and insurance will go to 2 of our children which i bore with my husband.

This info, i shared is based on my lawyer who help to draft my will. Hope its useful.
 


enxuan

New Member
It depends on individual. Joint tenancy is 50 - 50 each. But for me, I want to safe guard my children's interest to the best I can. If I die or met any mishap, at least my children will get the mOst n best I can get for them. So as well, i will get more say n share in the event if a divorce need to take place. Cos I see, alot of couples here mention abt housing issue when the marriage is on the rOcks. Therefore, I make this choice. Next time I jus need to buy over 35% if we Divorce. Or if I die, at least my kids will have something to depend on if my husband remarried or gambles all the money. Cos in my will, the mOney(my housing share + insurances payout) will go my children n be safeguard by my parents . Not a cent will go to my husband n his family. Therefore, making sure his share is as little as possible. However as the house is totally paid by him n cov, he does not mind as we are happily married now. That's why I think it's better to do this now than future quarrel.
 

xiao_nu_ren

New Member
Why are you directing yourself into a negative direction? Why aren't you focusing more on maintaining the marriage as it is?

If you think it will happen, it will definitely happen.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Don't think she wants and needs advise about that. She is only sharing about what she have learnt from her lawyers. Its probably useful for people with similar concerns as hers. Happiness is completely subjective.
happy.gif
 

enxuan

New Member
Ya, Milo. I'm just sharing this additional info. Of cos I will work towards my happiness. Married couples r often happily married n didn't think that divorce will happen. Only when reach the stage n being in a situation where housing is concerned, it's too late. So I'm jus taking an assurance. But after this issue, I feel so happy that my hubby is nt calculative over it and give me the security. Thus, i know at this moment at least he lOves me more than this issue.
 

rofthelper

Member
By default, the type of ownership is joint tenancy when couple purchase their HDB property. If you wish to convert to tenancy-in-common after the completion, you have to appoint your own solicitors or engage HDB to act on your behalf.

The only difference between joint tenancy and tenancy-in-common is that there is no right of survivorship in tenancy-in-common ownership.


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Hi En Xuan,

Why not Joint Tenancy? All our properties are Joint Tenancy.

Please enlighten me. Thanks.
 

rofthelper

Member
En Xuan, please remember to appoint someone above 21 yo in your will, as an executor to administer your estate if the below situation happens. As your kids are still minor, the executor can act as their trustee until they reach 21 yo.

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However if in the event that i passed away earlier, as i have written a will, all my shares and insurance will go to 2 of our children which i bore with my husband.
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi En Xuan,

Although you are much younger than me, you seems to know a lot and is very careful in the fine details.

All our properties are joint tenancy. We nominate each other 100% for the CPF account.
My colleagues said I am silly to do that. That if I die, my hubby's new wife will get all my CPF money and properties.

But I thought otherwise because new wife will be taking care of my hubby and my children if I die earlier, in addition to taking care of any of her own children. She does deserve the properties and money if hubby choose to give her.

What do you ladies think? Can share with me, how you nominate your CPF money? Thanks.
 

rofthelper

Member
Albee, you have a good reasoning and positive thinking.

I'm not lady, but I nominate 70% to my wife and 30% to my children for my CPF. Property also goes to her when I pass on.
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi Rofthelper,

Does that mean that if you die and your children are above 21 yrs old, they can use your money?

My hubby and I raise our children with the thinking that they will not inherit anything unless BOTH of us died.

When we are renting out one of our properties, my older daughter innocently ask me if this house is for her when she grows up and get married.

I told her NO. Daddy and Mummy work hard to buy this house, the rental money is for our retirement. You and your future hubby have to work hard to buy a house yourself.
 

rofthelper

Member
Albee, this post is as far as I know. If you have a valid will, it will be distributed according to the Will. (Example, family members, friends or to charities.)

If both of you pass on with no valid will, your estate will go to your children, under the provisions of Intestate Succession Act. This act does not apply to Muslims and is applied under Syariah Law separately.

Under the above act, if deceased couples with no children, estate will go to parent or parents of deceased, if no parent/s, shall go to brothers and sisters and children of deceased.

If your HDB is under Joint Tenancy as previously mentioned, your share will automatically pass on in your case, your hubby, and vice versa under survivorship by HDB.

As for CPF, if you have already made a nomination, your nominee/s will be entitled to the funds in your CPF account no matter what is stated in your Will. Otherwise it will be distributed under Intestate Succession Act.

Other then CPF, CPFIS and HDB which are by default covered under Intestate Succession Act, you can draft a will to give away your car, shares, insurance policies (paid in cash), bank accounts, cash and jewellery to anyone you wish to nominate.
 

p0o9i8

New Member
me and husband went to lawyer and indicated 50/50 share of our property.
Its not a HDB.

But when we bought it, husband foot most of the upfront cash, and also in the beginning, his CPF is fatter than mine, so naturally he paid more for the house
 

p0o9i8

New Member
oops, I did not add, for all my insurance payout, I designate husband as benefactor. Not my child. He did the same I suppose.
 

enxuan

New Member
Ya... That's why I nominate n draft a will, all goes to my children.and my parents r the trustees. If happen my children r nt ard, money goes to charity. Nothing gOes tO husband n his family as stated in the will. Cos I dun wan any woman to take away what my children shd get n later my children end uP nth...
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
"Nothing gOes tO husband n his family as stated in the will. Cos I dun wan any woman to take away what my children shd get n later my children end uP nth."

Saw through this since the first post in this thread.
 

yoongf

Member
Identifying the beneficiary is easy. Identifying that trusted someone who is willing to administer the probate dilligently is hardest!
 

enxuan

New Member
Tomasulu, I wonder who's not calculative when coming to terms with divorce? Im jus being realistic n being selfish for my children sake. For I give birth to them, it's my responsibility for them to live well. To the best I can. Its nothing wrong for a mother to lovE her children that way. And I love my children more than my anyone including my hubby. That, my hubby agrees with me and therefore he argees to my arrangement. And for that, I'm glad I married a man who's willing to give me n our child the security.
 

enxuan

New Member
Yes, of cos. Especially, someone disguised as "Sarah park" msg him thru FB to inform him. But, I guessed the person didn't expect my hubby n I doesn't have any secrets n he has access to my everything. My ATM passwords, my phones, my mails, my Fb Acc n everything. I even had a dispute with my MIL and I jus told him to be FAIR and he jus keep quiet while we r shouting n quarrelling with her. I even openly tell him n MIL how much I hated my In laws n ESP his daughter. And I'm glad my hubby is gd enuff to let all these matters hurt our relationship. I know many ppl will start to say n critise. But I have a life of my own and I intend to live only for myself. I'm glad n happy to have a supportive n such a hubby who give in. I know I'm heartless n selfish, but I choose to be happy n I can't make everyone happy n me miserable. So, I rather choose to cut away from everything that makes my life sad n only safeguard my present happinesses.
 

watching

Member
You mentioned his name before, wouldn´t be too hard to find him, I am not raising an eyebrow someone contacted him already.

Will you and husband contribute equally to the flat?
 

watching

Member
How was that 65-35 percentage chosen ? I am trying to comprehend.

In the event of your demise as a widow (after husband's passing), I gather that each of your 2 childrenwill get 65/2 (your legitimate share)+(35/2)/2 (your share after demise of husband)+(35/2)/3 (husbands will to each of his children) is 47.08 % and his daughter will get 5.83 % + something from her own mother (if any). Now, I don't know how you and husband foot the bills but suppose you both contribute equally in real life instead of the theoretical 65-35%. His daughter inherits 5.8% instead of 50/3 = 16.7%. Your husband is all right his daughter gets 16.7-5.8 = 10.9 % less ?

Scenario: first-deceased husband, second deceased en xuan
enxuan husband
proportion 65 35
stepchild 0 5.83
child 1 32.5 5.83
child 2 32.5 5.83
enxuan 17.5 0

Suppose you depart first, then husband (and he doesn't remarry). Then the stepchild still gets 5.83% and your children each inherit 47.08 %. The numbers don't change.

Am I understanding the numerals correctly ?
 

enxuan

New Member
I didn't contribute anything at all. But hubby doesn't mind... I'm nt working as I didn't work before n also expecting #2. Currently, hubby getting maid to help me with #1 as I'm very tired to care for #1. my hubby is nt easily to be find in FB as his email n nick is totally unrelated to his name. So, hubby n I think n guessed who could it be already. But, hubby jus brush it off by saying why care what ppl say. Jus b Happy together. Marriage is abt us n noThing shd b more important than trustin each other.
happy.gif

Anyway, it's gettin out of the topic. I'm ending here.
 

enxuan

New Member
Watching, yes. Ur right in ur calculation. That's for the property excluding my insurance policy I have for my children each has a investment, shield n savings plan . Plus my insurance payout all to my children.
 

yoongf

Member
I am not sure whether it makes sense to divide up the home based on such minute percentages, for TS particular life stage.

If this was a normal investment property, likely it will be disposed off by the probate, and the proceeds divided out based on the percentage. This makes sense.

But for the home, if divided up, there are some issues to consider. Unlikely it will be sold, as that would mean all the kids will be homeless, while the proceeds may not be enough to get replacement homes.

If it's a HDB property, then all the kids will be deemed to be HDB flat owners, and that would disqualify them as first timers. (This can be appealed, of course)

If it's private, then the 30 month time bar to buy HDB applies.

Imagine a property owned by 4 unique parties. I don't see how any of them can benefit from owning it that manner, unless for self occupation.

Personally, I think it's better to pass property to 1 person, and let that responsible person take care of his/her siblings. This belief is consistent with the objective of joint tenancy.
BTW, joint tenancy does not imply 50-50. It simply means right of survivorship.
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
En Xuan, appointing your parents as trustees - What are the chances of them surviving you?

Good plan that has been badly executed.
 

simpleman

Active Member
While it is not a bad idea to do planning in case we are gone I don't quite see the point to such details with regards to hb & wife - not unless you are a billionaire or multi-millionaire.

If you have substantial financial assets, it is prudent to be very clear on who gets whats so that there is little dispute if we leave suddenly.

But for most of us, even if we have a couple of millions in terms of assets and cash - it is not necessary to do that.

As hb & wife, we would have implicit trust that if one will to leave early, the other would take care of the children. We can't have this trust? The only thing I would say is to set aside some money for parents/in-laws - because if they are dependent then they may have issue if their sons/daughters passed away suddenly and their sil/dils refused to take care of them.

Even for my case of divorced. I see no difference in financial management. I trust my ex-wife to be trustee and she has access to all my funds so that she could take care of the children. We still have joint-account. She can access my funds when I am gone.

Similarly, she just set aside a fixed amount for her parents.. and the rest are for the children. I also have access to her bank account and also beneficiary of her CPF/insurances. I would be trustee of all her funds.

I don't know but if you can't even trust your hb to take care of your children in the best possible way.. then that says so much about the relationship. I could be wrong but this is my view.
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi,

I agree with Yoongf. That's why all my properties are joint tenancy.

But what En Xuan said is interesting because I never thought ownership of properties can be done in percentages with the family.

We are not leaving any property to the children till death.
They have to work to buy HDB with their future hubbies.

We don't want to tie up their names to our properties because then they can't buy HDB direct which is subsidise by government.
 

simpleman

Active Member
My ex-wife and I are planning for 3 properties - one each for my daughters - when we are gone. That way, no need to divide up.
 

enxuan

New Member
What u all said r true n I will not do this if all children r mine. The reason being done this is to ensure my children gets the mOst they can.
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi SM,

We are also leaving the properties to 2 daughters when we died.

But the value of the properties are different.
1 in central, 2 in suburban.

How do you divide to ensure fairness?

Options :
1. Get another central property to balance up.
2. Give more to the responsible daughter.
3. Give more to the not so successful daughter.
4. Draw lots.
 

enxuan

New Member
Albee, if I were u, I will give 50-50 of each property to each of them. So sisters will always be peaceful.
 

littledd

New Member
Wow.. you are very mindful about such matters aren't you?

Go girl! Thumbs up and thanks for the tip.. I'd probably "implement" this if I get the SOB flat at Clementi. Hahaha!
 

clark

New Member
Albee, you are as stupid as you sound.

My kids will not get much from me. i have worked hard and deserve to enjoy the fruits of my labour. What they need is basic education, a good family environment and the morals values in life to be successful.

It is stupid parents like you who thinks that they have a lot to give as inheritance. Worry abt yr own retirement.
 

simpleman

Active Member
albee,

I always give more to the less capable. I hope they don't really need our money, but the house is just in case - a roof over their head.

There is no such thing as 100% fair. Nothing is equal only we humans try to make it 50-50. I will let them understand why it is divided in such a manner.. and I don't think they will dispute.
 

mum_of_2_girls

New Member
Hi SM,

Thanks for your advice. I think I will follow your method to try and let them understand the reason.

If not, it seems like you are penalising the more hardworking sibling.
ie. successful = get less
not successful = get more
Not very meritocratic, isn't it?
 

simpleman

Active Member
Of course I wouldn't tell them now - no good for motivation. But when the more capable one has arrived I would explain to the more capable one..

I always believe in helping the less capable.. not to get them be complacent or lazy.. but at least after trying in their limited ways - we should help.

I think this world is getting more meritocratic - which is good in general but we cannot overdo it. Recently the very rich in the US is complaining and urging the government to tax them more.. cos they are given too many tax breaks.. and they would like to help more.. So, they may have a super-rich tax.
 

powder

Active Member
the 2 suburban leave 1 each.

the remaining central goes into a trust, property to be held til the younger one turns 30, then to be sold and divided between the 2. This is to safeguard against them getting money too early, or against lousy husbands.

u dun have to give them immediately. keep the central for yourselves... else split it amongst parents or everyone.

i'm surprised so little goes to parents even if they may likely pass on before us... at least we need to safeguard their old age and health-keeping.
 

powder

Active Member
this more IF we leave before them... who takes care of them? if our kids have their life or are Not good to our parents... our parents would be freakin old so the financial aspects would be more crucial than our kids who can make their own.
 

powder

Active Member
i guess u start with the lawyers. there are also insurance schemes which can have a multiplier effect if u're keen, the premiums are pretty steep but it's something to consider for wealth multiplication upon your death... starts from 250k upwards... i'm looking at it now, but it's abit daunting. i guess i'm KIV-ing this for a few more years...

i dun wish to go into specifics though, i'm kinda sick of negative pple who do fark-all in their life, thinking that it's another attempt for me to display wealth. i believe there would be pple who are qualified to advise u.... in fact they probably can't wait to share with u.

ps: the usual f-word i use cannot be typed in anymore. therefore the change...
 

watching

Member
I made a mistake in the second scenario, En Xuan.

If you depart first and then your husband (he doesn´t remarry), the stepchild gets 35/3 =11.67 %, your children inherit each 35/3+65/2 = 44.17 %. Husband doesn´t inherit half of your 65 % because you specified he gets nothing.

The above written are just numerals, numerals that husband can see too. You seemed okay with providing consequential information initially.

You have a false sense of security that the husband who gives in is supportive. He does not want domestic commotion so he chooses to bury his head in the sand or he nods his head at what the wife says. These are false positives and I think you know it. It has been at the back of your head, so you lay a scheme. It must be comforting for you to be able to secure a considerable share of the flat for your 2 children, sacrificing the stepchild´s share from a previous marriage. Behavioral patterns will ensue, husband will not be there in regards with the emotional welfare of your 2 children if you depart first.

ps: I do not think you believe yourself to be selfish.
 

simpleman

Active Member
powder,

I understand. That is why even with ex-wife, I committed to take care of her parents if she is not around - although she will leave them a sum of money. Of course also make plan with other siblings.
 


tomasulu

Member
Leave everything to the spouse and the spouse wills everything to the kids or their legal guardians/trust. make sure any outstanding mortgage will be taken care of when you kick the bucket. Be sufficiently insured to be able to afford the best medical treatment for yourself or your loved ones. And if you're incapacitated or while recovering from any serious illness, you should have enough to get by. Have sufficient cash to sustain your current lifestyle for at least a couple of years without an income.

Thats it. Milestones I set for myself while I work towards my retirement.
 

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