A Place To Vent Anger on Monster In Laws
- Thread starter janicachan
- Start date
mozzarella
New Member
Hey i tot of an idea... don't know makes sense or not. Why not modify your door to have a "letterbox" on the inside while a hole on the outside with a flap, then he can just drop the mails into that box without having to knock and make a hoo haa.
Actually the FIL just expect someone at home and open door when he's there. Isn't there a letter box at the void deck?
Maybe your hubby and you should arrange with his parents to collect letter once a week or whenever both of you visit them so no need to trouble your FIL to come over or come less frequent.
Maybe your hubby and you should arrange with his parents to collect letter once a week or whenever both of you visit them so no need to trouble your FIL to come over or come less frequent.
janicachan
New Member
I also dun understsand y fil doesnt drop the letter in my letterbox at the void deck. he used to do that, but not anymore.
I did make a fuss to hb, ask him tell fil inform b4 coming over. only after much efforts can i make hb do it. in fact he is doing it unwillingly...
n do u hv problem talking to ur fil?
I did make a fuss to hb, ask him tell fil inform b4 coming over. only after much efforts can i make hb do it. in fact he is doing it unwillingly...
n do u hv problem talking to ur fil?
janicachan
New Member
cactus,
mayb u r rite that fil want to walk walk, but my hb usually not home yet the time fil comes. he knows it.
i dun think he wants to c my face too.
so i still cant figure out the reason..
i welcome anyone in fact if they notify me first.
mayb u r rite that fil want to walk walk, but my hb usually not home yet the time fil comes. he knows it.
i dun think he wants to c my face too.
so i still cant figure out the reason..
i welcome anyone in fact if they notify me first.
Maybe by the time your hb comes home, your FIL prefers to stay at home cos it's near dinner time or after his dinner time? Or he may want to stay at home to keep his wife company? Does your MIL work? If she works in the day, that may explain why your FIL walks around in the day. Also, evening tv programmes are more interesting.
Whilst I don't agree with anyone banging down the doors, it always helps to rationalize and see the reason behind people doing certain things. It's not that we will forgive them more readily for their unreasonable behaviour, but when we understand why they behave in a certain way, it makes us feel less angry with them and that actually sets us free from the anger. I'm not sure if you understand.
Whilst I don't agree with anyone banging down the doors, it always helps to rationalize and see the reason behind people doing certain things. It's not that we will forgive them more readily for their unreasonable behaviour, but when we understand why they behave in a certain way, it makes us feel less angry with them and that actually sets us free from the anger. I'm not sure if you understand.
I guess you people have to understand the mentality of old people. If they are retired, they are bored and they walk around. It is wrong to bang the door but other than that visiting - even without prior calling is not a crime. Yes, you may not like it but it isnt a big deal. He is also not asking you to entertain him, so just look more open and relax.
My FIL used to travel all the way from redhill to my place in serangoon - taking bus and MRT - just to bring us some food - in which we have told him that we don't need those food. Still, it is their good intention and I just smile and accept it. Try to be softer and develop a relationship (at least on talking terms) and you can just put it nicely how you feel.
Seriously, when my MIL/FIL sometimes come un-announce, I did not kick up a fuss. Make them some coffee and they will just play with their grand children for a while.
At times my FIL even visited my house (even after I am separated from my wife - she moved out). And even tried to take over my maid and cook our dinner! They are old people and they can be lonely. One day when you are old you can probably understand.
Treat them with kind respect and try to be on talking terms with them. In time to come, they may just listen to what you have to say.
My FIL used to travel all the way from redhill to my place in serangoon - taking bus and MRT - just to bring us some food - in which we have told him that we don't need those food. Still, it is their good intention and I just smile and accept it. Try to be softer and develop a relationship (at least on talking terms) and you can just put it nicely how you feel.
Seriously, when my MIL/FIL sometimes come un-announce, I did not kick up a fuss. Make them some coffee and they will just play with their grand children for a while.
At times my FIL even visited my house (even after I am separated from my wife - she moved out). And even tried to take over my maid and cook our dinner! They are old people and they can be lonely. One day when you are old you can probably understand.
Treat them with kind respect and try to be on talking terms with them. In time to come, they may just listen to what you have to say.
simpleman's story reminds me of what's happening to my grandma now. She's in her mid-70s. Her eyesight is failing but she is still agile. She takes public transport everywhere when her kids don't have time to ferry her around - they work.
She lives with a son and DIL, with 3 grandkids. Her grandkids are now in sec school/JC. In the day, she is very lonely.
Once in a few months, she would cook soups at home, and take public transport to my place. She would do so without prior notification. If no one is at home, she will wait at the void deck. My dad always complains about my grandma - his MIL. The reason why he complains is not that he doesn't welcome my grandma, but that his heart breaks at an old lady travelling long distance (Serangoon to Tampines, 2 buses over 1.5 hrs) just to deliver some soup. That's what old people are like. They mean no harm and their interests is always for their kids and grandkids.
She lives with a son and DIL, with 3 grandkids. Her grandkids are now in sec school/JC. In the day, she is very lonely.
Once in a few months, she would cook soups at home, and take public transport to my place. She would do so without prior notification. If no one is at home, she will wait at the void deck. My dad always complains about my grandma - his MIL. The reason why he complains is not that he doesn't welcome my grandma, but that his heart breaks at an old lady travelling long distance (Serangoon to Tampines, 2 buses over 1.5 hrs) just to deliver some soup. That's what old people are like. They mean no harm and their interests is always for their kids and grandkids.
ya...my grandma takes bus and MRT to another market just to buy my favourite drumstick because the one near her place is too small and skinny.
My grandma and grandfather also takes the bus and MRT alone to come visit me occasionally during weekends and we just sit, chat and sometimes play abit of mahjong with them. But they do call to make sure that we are at home first. I go over to have dinner with them once a week but even so, I also hoped to sepend more time with them.
I agree that this is just the way the old folks show their concern (and sometimes, lonlieness & boredom)
My grandma and grandfather also takes the bus and MRT alone to come visit me occasionally during weekends and we just sit, chat and sometimes play abit of mahjong with them. But they do call to make sure that we are at home first. I go over to have dinner with them once a week but even so, I also hoped to sepend more time with them.
I agree that this is just the way the old folks show their concern (and sometimes, lonlieness & boredom)
I feel in life, we tend to take people around us for granted. Esp those closest to us. It's only when they leave us, that we regret not spending enough time with them.It applies to grandparents, parents and even in-laws. No matter how resentful we feel about our in-laws, they are ultimately the parents of our husband/wife. Just have to try to give and take. Can ignore, we ignore. It's never easy for our spouse to feel caught between us and their parents. To some, they consider it betrayal.
If I'm faced with an unreasonable in-law, I rather walk out of the marriage, than to subject my husband to such stress. AFter all, parents and children is a blood relationship. Sad to say, marriage is only a legal, and for some, spiritual union.
If I'm faced with an unreasonable in-law, I rather walk out of the marriage, than to subject my husband to such stress. AFter all, parents and children is a blood relationship. Sad to say, marriage is only a legal, and for some, spiritual union.
pinkbuttons
New Member
hi honesty, i'm ok, thanks for yr concern.
think things are going to get pretty ugly btw my husband and i. he has been asking me to move back, again offering the solution to buy another plc...
my lawyer has written to him to request for notional rental. my lawyer today informed me that my husband wrote back to him saying that i earn more than him, furthermore he never prevent me from moving back (nor does he prevent my mother from staying if she wishes), hence he shld not be asked to pay anything to me. he said the house is mine just as much as it is his, so expenses shld be half-half. just cos i suddenly decided to shift out doesn't mean he shld reimburse me of anything... so mean... i am so so pissed.
if there was any thought in the back of my mind to consider reconciliation, it's been struck off the minute i read my husband's letter.
think things are going to get pretty ugly btw my husband and i. he has been asking me to move back, again offering the solution to buy another plc...
my lawyer has written to him to request for notional rental. my lawyer today informed me that my husband wrote back to him saying that i earn more than him, furthermore he never prevent me from moving back (nor does he prevent my mother from staying if she wishes), hence he shld not be asked to pay anything to me. he said the house is mine just as much as it is his, so expenses shld be half-half. just cos i suddenly decided to shift out doesn't mean he shld reimburse me of anything... so mean... i am so so pissed.
if there was any thought in the back of my mind to consider reconciliation, it's been struck off the minute i read my husband's letter.
pinkbuttons
New Member
i suspect he had sought some sort of advice in coming up with the letter to my lawyer; my husband could never write so well. so looks like things aren't going to be easy.
pls pray for me!! sigh....
pls pray for me!! sigh....
pinkbuttons, since you are already bent on separation and eventual divorce from your hb, there is no point to dwell too much on it.
Between hb and wife and even in separation, everything should be discussed amicably if possible - resorting to using lawyer is counter-productive. You waste your money and it only make the other party angry. What do you expect him to do when you send him a lawyer's letter? If I am him I will respond with one. And it just make the relationship worse.
Call him out to discuss. Talk to him nicely about paying some sort of rental as you are alone outside and have to pay for everything. Use the soft approach, I believe it is much more effective. You two have loved once and I believe there are still remnants of love and if you are able to talk to him nicely, mostly likely you can get something out of it. Sending a lawyer's letter won't get what you want.
I am afraid that he has a point. You chose to leave the house and he did not force you to leave and therefore there is no need for him to compensate you.
Between hb and wife and even in separation, everything should be discussed amicably if possible - resorting to using lawyer is counter-productive. You waste your money and it only make the other party angry. What do you expect him to do when you send him a lawyer's letter? If I am him I will respond with one. And it just make the relationship worse.
Call him out to discuss. Talk to him nicely about paying some sort of rental as you are alone outside and have to pay for everything. Use the soft approach, I believe it is much more effective. You two have loved once and I believe there are still remnants of love and if you are able to talk to him nicely, mostly likely you can get something out of it. Sending a lawyer's letter won't get what you want.
I am afraid that he has a point. You chose to leave the house and he did not force you to leave and therefore there is no need for him to compensate you.
hi pinkbuttons,
I'm sorry that lawyers are involved..... things get very very ugly when lawyers are involved. Cos lawyers tend to be very aggressive. Their thinking is, if they are being paid the $, they better be aggressive.... you are right that his lawyer had a big hand in it.
I'm sorry that lawyers are involved..... things get very very ugly when lawyers are involved. Cos lawyers tend to be very aggressive. Their thinking is, if they are being paid the $, they better be aggressive.... you are right that his lawyer had a big hand in it.
pinkbuttons
New Member
do u know why i had to resort to using a lawyer? because amicable discussions don't get anywhere with him. after all the money that i had lent him, there has been no indication or effort to start any form of repayment. i've brought it up many times, but he just sighs & says he has to pay his mum & uncle dunno-how-much each month.
i sympathize w him, but's who's going to be fair to me?
i sympathize w him, but's who's going to be fair to me?
But money lent between hb and wife is very difficult to recover through legal means .. that is my thinking.
So you have to learn a lesson on how to deal with your money.
And it is a sad thing for couples once in love to talk dollars and cents.
My feeling is that if he is bent on not returning you the money, it will be very difficult.
So you have to learn a lesson on how to deal with your money.
And it is a sad thing for couples once in love to talk dollars and cents.
My feeling is that if he is bent on not returning you the money, it will be very difficult.
pinkbuttons
New Member
i've learnt a hard & expensive lesson...
i'm puzzled why your hb letter said you move out on your own will, coz you were in fact forced to move out due to your MIL pressure. anyway i think your lawyer is better person to help you handle this. just go ahead and squeeze every cent due to you out of your hb don't spare him. this will show your MIL this is the kind of consequence caused by her.
laundry_woes
New Member
I really dun understand all tis retribution for his actions, getting back every cent talk. Isn't getting ur life back and making a fresh start more impt?
hi pinkbuttons, my personal view is once lawyers step in, it's very very hard to come to any amicable discussion between you and your husband. Lawyers aren't the best people to help mend a marriage or help get things back fairly.
I agree that your husband's lawyer's letter is right. He doesn't need to pay you rent cos after all, he is an owner anyway.
It's best to speak to your lawyer and make sure he understands what you want. Lawyers just take instructions from clients. Fight or give pressure or to reconcile.
I agree that your husband's lawyer's letter is right. He doesn't need to pay you rent cos after all, he is an owner anyway.
It's best to speak to your lawyer and make sure he understands what you want. Lawyers just take instructions from clients. Fight or give pressure or to reconcile.
Hi pinkbuttons, been following this thread & I'm sorry to hear about what's been happening to you these few months.
I guess it's too late to feel regretful about the issuance of lawyer letter to your hubby. Though I personally find it nothing wrong as your several appeals to him previously have been to no avail. So I can understand the frustrations & unjust in you. When we think that he's a such a weakling (or maybe only to his mum), he actually fights back.. and retaliates by seeking legal advice (that's if we're not wrong). Seems like he doesn't remember how much you have helped him before financially & how much you have suffered due to his monstrous mum. He doesn't realise that he's failed to fulfill his responsibilities in being a good husband. If he does, upon receiving the lawyer letter, he would have also talked to you privately to know what's going on, in the hope that you would revoke your request, or best to improve the situation.
However, like others have said, it's very difficult to quantify the scope of assistance you've given him in monetary terms. Even if you have kept all the cheque butts or bank statements, it's still arguable if he's out to turn the table. But you have to know what you really want at the end of this divorce path. If freedom (esp free from misery as a result of all these mistreatments & stress from your MIL) is what you want ultimately, be prepared to lose in some ways.. if you manage to recover some parts of the monies you loan him, that'll be a bonus. In a sad way, the more he repels, the more you would feel relieve as can you imagine, he could be way too unreasonably & foolishly submit to his mum, yet has the heart to fight against you. You should know by then where you stand in his heart.
On the other hand, your lawyer, with years of experience, should anticipate this kind of response from your hubby and he should be giving you sound advices that can try to put you on the upper hand. A good lawyer does not only act according to clients' instructions, but also to advise them the best actions to take so that the possibility of being at the losing end is reduced to the minimum.
Please bear in mind that the longer or the more you fight, the more legal fees you'll incur.
I guess it's too late to feel regretful about the issuance of lawyer letter to your hubby. Though I personally find it nothing wrong as your several appeals to him previously have been to no avail. So I can understand the frustrations & unjust in you. When we think that he's a such a weakling (or maybe only to his mum), he actually fights back.. and retaliates by seeking legal advice (that's if we're not wrong). Seems like he doesn't remember how much you have helped him before financially & how much you have suffered due to his monstrous mum. He doesn't realise that he's failed to fulfill his responsibilities in being a good husband. If he does, upon receiving the lawyer letter, he would have also talked to you privately to know what's going on, in the hope that you would revoke your request, or best to improve the situation.
However, like others have said, it's very difficult to quantify the scope of assistance you've given him in monetary terms. Even if you have kept all the cheque butts or bank statements, it's still arguable if he's out to turn the table. But you have to know what you really want at the end of this divorce path. If freedom (esp free from misery as a result of all these mistreatments & stress from your MIL) is what you want ultimately, be prepared to lose in some ways.. if you manage to recover some parts of the monies you loan him, that'll be a bonus. In a sad way, the more he repels, the more you would feel relieve as can you imagine, he could be way too unreasonably & foolishly submit to his mum, yet has the heart to fight against you. You should know by then where you stand in his heart.
On the other hand, your lawyer, with years of experience, should anticipate this kind of response from your hubby and he should be giving you sound advices that can try to put you on the upper hand. A good lawyer does not only act according to clients' instructions, but also to advise them the best actions to take so that the possibility of being at the losing end is reduced to the minimum.
Please bear in mind that the longer or the more you fight, the more legal fees you'll incur.
I've seen quite alot divorces happening. I feel the best thing a woman can do in an unfortunate relationship is to get out of it altogether. Get her life back again. Stand on both feet. And get a HUGE maintenance from the ex-husband. Even if it's only $1 cos ex-husband earns $100/month, it's worth it.. cos that $1 will remain the ex-husband of a constant "liability" which will haunt him for several years to come...It's like how we all resent regular savings plan.... and there isn't that sweetener at the end of the savings period = a lump sum in cash.
kles,
Seriously where to find such good lawyer? Not for peanut sums. I have seen so many lawyers and I am not going to say that they are money-minded but seriously unless the lawyer is a good and close friend of yours or unless you pay him/her a lot of money - mostly they will just be doing what you asked of them.
I have even lawyer telling me to back off from confrontation when he agreed that I have 90% chance of winning. In the end, I sort out the issue myself by threatening further legal action. My lawyer just smile.
If you really have cheap and very good lawyer then let me know.
Seriously where to find such good lawyer? Not for peanut sums. I have seen so many lawyers and I am not going to say that they are money-minded but seriously unless the lawyer is a good and close friend of yours or unless you pay him/her a lot of money - mostly they will just be doing what you asked of them.
I have even lawyer telling me to back off from confrontation when he agreed that I have 90% chance of winning. In the end, I sort out the issue myself by threatening further legal action. My lawyer just smile.
If you really have cheap and very good lawyer then let me know.
Talk about maintenance to wife. Singapore law still so ancient. Woman can ask for maintenance from hb and not vice versa - irregardless of how much they earn.
But why reserve the $1 right? What is the significance of that? I told my wife, either you ask for a sum or not at all - no such thing as $1. Anyway once a woman remarries, the ex-hb no need to pay maintenance already.
But why reserve the $1 right? What is the significance of that? I told my wife, either you ask for a sum or not at all - no such thing as $1. Anyway once a woman remarries, the ex-hb no need to pay maintenance already.
sm.. you may be right in a way.. not easy to find but still have lah. And the point here is not to get a cheap & good lawyer, but to find a relatively more ethical lawyer & of course doesn't demand fees that're sky high.
During my case, I've met a few lawyers.. from the very cheap one ($1500/straight forward divorce case) but don't expect much service from him, to medium range. Maybe I was fortunate (a consolation to all the bad times I had gone through) to get to meet two nice lawyers. One of them who was recommended by a friend, even discouraged me to take up a case against my ex after listing down the pros & cons.
Know of another lawyer who managed to claim more than half of the assets for the wife. Expensive or not? I don't know. Ethical? Don't know too.
As for myself, eventually I didn't engage a lawyer to handle my case. My ex demanded me to share the legal fees but me, being shortchanged for 8 years, was firm enough to tell him to bear the legal fees. Maintenance fee was my most useful chip for negotiation. So I settled my own errands. All I did was to pay the lawyer (the cheap one) $200 to extract the decree absolute when my ex didn't settle the final amount with his lawyer & of course the lawyer refused to extract it. Sorry, am getting offtrack. What I want to tell pinkbuttons from this is - be clear of what you want & aim towards that target, albeit some losses you would suffer in the midst & don't look back. Mine was 8 years of losses & if I were to dwell in it, the one who suffer most is still myself.
Anyhow, my ex's lawyer was ethical but couldn't make it one & it's not the cheapest. Imagine on the day when we all appeared in court (for decree nisi), the judge found out there're insufficient docs & it had to be adjourned.
So I think the best is to ask around for recommendation?
During my case, I've met a few lawyers.. from the very cheap one ($1500/straight forward divorce case) but don't expect much service from him, to medium range. Maybe I was fortunate (a consolation to all the bad times I had gone through) to get to meet two nice lawyers. One of them who was recommended by a friend, even discouraged me to take up a case against my ex after listing down the pros & cons.
Know of another lawyer who managed to claim more than half of the assets for the wife. Expensive or not? I don't know. Ethical? Don't know too.
As for myself, eventually I didn't engage a lawyer to handle my case. My ex demanded me to share the legal fees but me, being shortchanged for 8 years, was firm enough to tell him to bear the legal fees. Maintenance fee was my most useful chip for negotiation. So I settled my own errands. All I did was to pay the lawyer (the cheap one) $200 to extract the decree absolute when my ex didn't settle the final amount with his lawyer & of course the lawyer refused to extract it. Sorry, am getting offtrack. What I want to tell pinkbuttons from this is - be clear of what you want & aim towards that target, albeit some losses you would suffer in the midst & don't look back. Mine was 8 years of losses & if I were to dwell in it, the one who suffer most is still myself.
Anyhow, my ex's lawyer was ethical but couldn't make it one & it's not the cheapest. Imagine on the day when we all appeared in court (for decree nisi), the judge found out there're insufficient docs & it had to be adjourned.
So I think the best is to ask around for recommendation?
kles,
Yes, lucky to have good one and need to look around.
I don't intend to engage a lawyer if I need to divorce.
For me, currently no issue with house/money/whatever - we settle everything amicably although it just mean a lot of give and take. I guess we became better people throughout the process - able not to get emotional and deal with the issue.
Yes, lucky to have good one and need to look around.
I don't intend to engage a lawyer if I need to divorce.
For me, currently no issue with house/money/whatever - we settle everything amicably although it just mean a lot of give and take. I guess we became better people throughout the process - able not to get emotional and deal with the issue.
The $1 maintenance is to retain the right of asking for maintenance in the future. she may not need it now but perhaps in the future, due to retrenchment (touchwood) or some other reasons, she could still ask for more.. as long as she's not remarried.
The lumpsum is especially good if the wife has some plans in getting hitched in the near future.
The lumpsum is especially good if the wife has some plans in getting hitched in the near future.
kles, I told my wife I can give in to her but not the symbolic of $1. I am dead set against the $1 thingy because as you said, she can claim in the future. She did not insist on the $1. What am I talking. We are not even divorced and there is nothing to settle but if we do get divorced, there won't be any issue because we have agreement on almost everything - right to the custody of the children and the house (just sold it).
Amicable settlements is important. When we take a step backwards and try not to be calculative - especially to someone whom you once hold so dear, it is not difficult to be a bit more gracious. And the effect is reciprocal.
But I told her I am not writing a will so she will have 50% of what I have when I die - very likely much earlier than her.
I am also prepared to take care of her parents if my wife passed away suddenly even after we are divorced.
Amicable settlements is important. When we take a step backwards and try not to be calculative - especially to someone whom you once hold so dear, it is not difficult to be a bit more gracious. And the effect is reciprocal.
But I told her I am not writing a will so she will have 50% of what I have when I die - very likely much earlier than her.
I am also prepared to take care of her parents if my wife passed away suddenly even after we are divorced.
SM
Have you read through all of PB's posts from day 1? If you had, you wouldn't have said such things about calling her HB out to discuss rather than sending lawyer's letter. Because it's very apparant that PB have tried, countless times, to give in to his mum's unreasonable requests, talked to HB (but HB didn't do anything), and even after she has moved out, she has met up with her HB and tried to talk things over. It's just that she's finding things to be getting nowhere since her HB keeps making empty promises, and thus, have no choice but to send lawyer's letter. Her HB didn't protect her interests, so it's about time she stood up for herself.
Have you read through all of PB's posts from day 1? If you had, you wouldn't have said such things about calling her HB out to discuss rather than sending lawyer's letter. Because it's very apparant that PB have tried, countless times, to give in to his mum's unreasonable requests, talked to HB (but HB didn't do anything), and even after she has moved out, she has met up with her HB and tried to talk things over. It's just that she's finding things to be getting nowhere since her HB keeps making empty promises, and thus, have no choice but to send lawyer's letter. Her HB didn't protect her interests, so it's about time she stood up for herself.
hi sm,
$1 is good cos if ex-husband starts earning more, ex-wife has the right to ask the court to vary the amount upwards. If there is no maintenance order to begin with, there is no way the ex-wife can get anything to vary upwards.It's much harder to apply for maintenance order several years after divorce than to ask for variation upwards.
$1 is good cos if ex-husband starts earning more, ex-wife has the right to ask the court to vary the amount upwards. If there is no maintenance order to begin with, there is no way the ex-wife can get anything to vary upwards.It's much harder to apply for maintenance order several years after divorce than to ask for variation upwards.
cactus, Yes I understand but that is not fair to man. The woman's charter is already stack so in favor of women. Modern women earn as much if not more than men and why the need to suck dollars out of your ex?
I can understand for those who are housewife and have not worked and have contributed greatly to the family by being a housewife - yes they deserve every cent or even more from the ex-husband. But for a modern woman entirely capable of providing for herself or more, it is tantamount to robbing the poor to feed the rich, especially if the woman is much richer and the poor husband struggling to meet ends meet - it is still the ancient law that has not dealt with the equalities of man and woman.
Women today wants equality in everything and even in divorce they still want to retain the right to ask for more in the future. When the divorce ends it should end there and not greeding after future earnings of ex-husband.
I can understand for those who are housewife and have not worked and have contributed greatly to the family by being a housewife - yes they deserve every cent or even more from the ex-husband. But for a modern woman entirely capable of providing for herself or more, it is tantamount to robbing the poor to feed the rich, especially if the woman is much richer and the poor husband struggling to meet ends meet - it is still the ancient law that has not dealt with the equalities of man and woman.
Women today wants equality in everything and even in divorce they still want to retain the right to ask for more in the future. When the divorce ends it should end there and not greeding after future earnings of ex-husband.
samgirl, Yes I have read all her posting. I understand her difficulty and she has a right to stand up for herself.
What I am saying is that using a lawyer is not going to get her what she wants. And she ends up spending more money on legal fees for nothing and the pain of losing all her feelings and hopes for a possible reconciliation in the future because getting lawyers involve will get ugly.
What I am saying is that using a lawyer is not going to get her what she wants. And she ends up spending more money on legal fees for nothing and the pain of losing all her feelings and hopes for a possible reconciliation in the future because getting lawyers involve will get ugly.
I get what you mean, sm. The law is in favour of women.
But in society, an old divorced woman is less attractive than an old divorced man. FUrther, children tend to be awarded to women by the courts. An old divorced woman with kids may be less attractive than an old divorced man. The woman may have her career impeded and lose the chance of future love.
I hope I don't offend anyone with my generalizations above.
But in society, an old divorced woman is less attractive than an old divorced man. FUrther, children tend to be awarded to women by the courts. An old divorced woman with kids may be less attractive than an old divorced man. The woman may have her career impeded and lose the chance of future love.
I hope I don't offend anyone with my generalizations above.
sm, if only everyone thinks like you do.. it would be the perfect situation to be able to settle everything amiably. Truly, I admire your benevolence.
But sad to say, in many cases self-centeredness (that leads to affairs, gambling, chauvinism etc) is the cause of a problematic marriage. And the most dangerous is when these self-centered people refuse to admit it or choose to indulge in feeding their desires which eventually leads to the demise of a marriage. If they can't think right in their marriages, it's not likely that these people can think rationally during divorce. So sometimes we can't be blamed for being firm (even if it's to be through some legal means) in order to send the message across to the other party.
But sad to say, in many cases self-centeredness (that leads to affairs, gambling, chauvinism etc) is the cause of a problematic marriage. And the most dangerous is when these self-centered people refuse to admit it or choose to indulge in feeding their desires which eventually leads to the demise of a marriage. If they can't think right in their marriages, it's not likely that these people can think rationally during divorce. So sometimes we can't be blamed for being firm (even if it's to be through some legal means) in order to send the message across to the other party.
sm... regarding the laws in favor of women.. I would beg to differ. Yes, in general it seems so but there're still loopholes here & there.
Take my case for example, I was the sole contributor to the flat for 8 years (ok if his few thousands for the initial wipe-up was considered), so the loss in sale of flat was largely on me which was more than 30k. Ask for maintenance? His income level is very low & unstable as he's always in-between jobs (on average changed job every year or even less). The judge would also try to match the type of lifestyle I previously had during the marriage which was near zero as he'd never given me a single cent as pocket money nor contribute to the household expenses throughout the marriage. So how much maintenance do you think I'd receive?
Talk about the laws protecting women? But how come I was not?
Take my case for example, I was the sole contributor to the flat for 8 years (ok if his few thousands for the initial wipe-up was considered), so the loss in sale of flat was largely on me which was more than 30k. Ask for maintenance? His income level is very low & unstable as he's always in-between jobs (on average changed job every year or even less). The judge would also try to match the type of lifestyle I previously had during the marriage which was near zero as he'd never given me a single cent as pocket money nor contribute to the household expenses throughout the marriage. So how much maintenance do you think I'd receive?
Talk about the laws protecting women? But how come I was not?
cactus, I don't think so. Women are definitely better off in a divorce. Assuming men and women earn equal pay and the man need to pay the woman and not vice versa. I had an ex-boss, an extreme case. He is an American. He divorced three times and is still paying for the 3 ex-wives. He could be rich but instead worked himself to death to support 3 women.
If you look at advanced society like Japan. There is already a phenomenon of matured old women (in their 60s) divorcing their husband to get half of their pension. And then they can enjoy life, travel round the world and can pick younger men (slightly younger) as they have money. The poor husband lose half his asset and is already too poor and too old to have any woman wanting to spend the twilight with him.
I can see Singapore advancing in such a manner if there is equality of opportunity but with laws stack in the favour of man.
Once a woman hit 60, the children are all grown up and won't be a baggage. If fact if they are with the mother, they will support the mother as well.
If you look at advanced society like Japan. There is already a phenomenon of matured old women (in their 60s) divorcing their husband to get half of their pension. And then they can enjoy life, travel round the world and can pick younger men (slightly younger) as they have money. The poor husband lose half his asset and is already too poor and too old to have any woman wanting to spend the twilight with him.
I can see Singapore advancing in such a manner if there is equality of opportunity but with laws stack in the favour of man.
Once a woman hit 60, the children are all grown up and won't be a baggage. If fact if they are with the mother, they will support the mother as well.
kles, the law is still favoring woman. For your case, you earn more and that is why you are hit more. Your hb income is low (lower than yours), why do you still need maintenance from him?
It is not that the law is not protecting you. It is just a fact that your hb is too poor to support you and give you much maintenance.
It is not that the law is not protecting you. It is just a fact that your hb is too poor to support you and give you much maintenance.
Hi sm,
I guess it depends on what each person wants in life. If you are talking about $, then sure, the law gives more protection to women in terms of financial assistance. But to some women, if not most of them, it's not so much $ which they can about but the potential disrepute of being known as a "divorcee". It still carries a stigma in society. Further, women tend to suffer more emotionally in a situation of divorce. Women with children tagging along with her may face even more stigma. I'm talking about a single mother, with young kids, trying to earn a living outside to make ends meet. SHe is both the mother and father, needing to deal with bosses who may be unsympathetic (some bosses dont like married female employees cos they tend to take very last minute leave, or child care leave, or maternity leave for example).
I guess it depends on what each person wants in life. If you are talking about $, then sure, the law gives more protection to women in terms of financial assistance. But to some women, if not most of them, it's not so much $ which they can about but the potential disrepute of being known as a "divorcee". It still carries a stigma in society. Further, women tend to suffer more emotionally in a situation of divorce. Women with children tagging along with her may face even more stigma. I'm talking about a single mother, with young kids, trying to earn a living outside to make ends meet. SHe is both the mother and father, needing to deal with bosses who may be unsympathetic (some bosses dont like married female employees cos they tend to take very last minute leave, or child care leave, or maternity leave for example).
sm..
You don't see the root problem here. It's not whether his income low or not or whether mine's higher. And the fact is I don't earn much too. I'm talking about sense of responsibility. However low the income is or even without income, a responsible self can still contribute to the household. I somewhat agree with you that the laws favor women but it really depends on each individual case. For mine, it seemed like the one who'd been totally irresponsible throughout the marriage yet could continue to be scot-free till the end.. though I'm a woman, the laws are 'dead'. I'm sure I wasn't the only one out there facing this kind of situation.
FYI, I didn't ask for maintenance.
By the way, we can’t talk about fairness. In the first place, biologically men & women are made so differently. There’s nothing fair in this sense. Why women gotta have the monthly cycle & suffer from PMS? There’re too many unexplainable facts. Do you mean a woman as capable & earns as much as a man won’t suffer from pre-natal &/or post-natal conditions? And after giving birth, mothers have to take extra care too.. I’ve got a few girlfriends who suffered a lot for having milk duct infection (not sure how is it called) as they were too busy @work to pump out the milk.
So there’s nothing wrong that the laws protect women more. But I do agree there are always black sheep around, and the same for guys.
You don't see the root problem here. It's not whether his income low or not or whether mine's higher. And the fact is I don't earn much too. I'm talking about sense of responsibility. However low the income is or even without income, a responsible self can still contribute to the household. I somewhat agree with you that the laws favor women but it really depends on each individual case. For mine, it seemed like the one who'd been totally irresponsible throughout the marriage yet could continue to be scot-free till the end.. though I'm a woman, the laws are 'dead'. I'm sure I wasn't the only one out there facing this kind of situation.
FYI, I didn't ask for maintenance.
By the way, we can’t talk about fairness. In the first place, biologically men & women are made so differently. There’s nothing fair in this sense. Why women gotta have the monthly cycle & suffer from PMS? There’re too many unexplainable facts. Do you mean a woman as capable & earns as much as a man won’t suffer from pre-natal &/or post-natal conditions? And after giving birth, mothers have to take extra care too.. I’ve got a few girlfriends who suffered a lot for having milk duct infection (not sure how is it called) as they were too busy @work to pump out the milk.
So there’s nothing wrong that the laws protect women more. But I do agree there are always black sheep around, and the same for guys.
mozzarella
New Member
Hi PB, I read your post from beginning to end, abit of dejavu, she's almost like my EX's mother. A total witch. I believe your happiness is in your own hands, i chose to ditch them and move on with my life and can't be happier now. Although i wasn't living with my MIL then she was able to cause much unhappiness to me and my family whom she would call incessantly to scold my mother. For EVERYTHING she can think of, half the things she fabricated in her own mind. Anyways it was not long ago during a conversation with my mum tat she said my ex's mother was using "gong tau". I probe on further, she didn't want to say more. Anyways i decided to move out like you, and not long later his mother moved in. Anyways i'm back on my feet now with a new guy in my life who has a fabulous family. Fate works in strange way. If i never went thru that 10 years of suffering, i may never have met my current bf. Blessing in disguise bah. : D
SM, my views are open on maintenance but I feel life is unfair to a single mother without the support of her husband to bring up children. Society tends to be very cruel to such a woman. It is almost accepted that a single father can employ the help of maids to raise kids and have a very nonchalent attitude towards the upbringing of the kids, and even re-marry. Of course, not every single father does that and there are some single fathers like yourself who do a fantastic job in being involved in the upbringing of your daughters and let the maid do solely housework.
Having said that, I agree with Kles. There are black sheep around.. single mothers who take advantage of maintenance. But not every mother is bad and I would say divorce hurts a woman more than a man generally speaking because a woman tends to be more emotional. Further, the stigma.
Having said that, I agree with Kles. There are black sheep around.. single mothers who take advantage of maintenance. But not every mother is bad and I would say divorce hurts a woman more than a man generally speaking because a woman tends to be more emotional. Further, the stigma.
cactus, just to let you know that all the govt policy are pro-family and pro-woman.
Got child-care subsidy for mother. Got maid levy subsidy for mother (single or married). got maid levy tax relief for mother. Got enhanced child relief (on top of the normal child relief that both father and mother have)
Not to mention taking off day or leave for children. If for a mother, normally the employer will be more sympathetic. For a father, your employer will "question" why you need to take urgent leave so often. Lucky my job is extremely flexible and quite pro-family.
For a single father like myself I don't have a single thing. I still on single income, need a maid but no help from government.
I guess I agree that woman are less able to let go and move on in life. But it is possible and is entirely dependent on the will of the woman. For man it is much easier to let go of the baggage.
Divorce stigma? Yes to a certain extent but I guess it is already changing - it is much less of a stigma now cos divorce is so common.
Got child-care subsidy for mother. Got maid levy subsidy for mother (single or married). got maid levy tax relief for mother. Got enhanced child relief (on top of the normal child relief that both father and mother have)
Not to mention taking off day or leave for children. If for a mother, normally the employer will be more sympathetic. For a father, your employer will "question" why you need to take urgent leave so often. Lucky my job is extremely flexible and quite pro-family.
For a single father like myself I don't have a single thing. I still on single income, need a maid but no help from government.
I guess I agree that woman are less able to let go and move on in life. But it is possible and is entirely dependent on the will of the woman. For man it is much easier to let go of the baggage.
Divorce stigma? Yes to a certain extent but I guess it is already changing - it is much less of a stigma now cos divorce is so common.
Hey SM,
I don't want to sound antagonistc here but I think maid levy subsidy is for anyone with an elderly (I think over 62 years of age in the house) or a subnormal child? I'm not aware that it's only for females...
You mentioned that mother taking leave for children's needs is more acceptable. True. But there are some bosses who frown on employing married ladies or even ladies who have young children.... married/single men have a better chance at their careers over married women.
I think it's just not possible to compare. Men and Women are made differently to begin with. Biologically, I mean.
There are some women who take advantage of the laws. There are also men who take advantage of the laws which try to protect women.
You'd be surprised that there is still stigma today. It may be changing but it can't be eliminated not even in our kids' generation. As long as religion is strong, we are an asian society, divorce will always be frowned upon.
I don't want to sound antagonistc here but I think maid levy subsidy is for anyone with an elderly (I think over 62 years of age in the house) or a subnormal child? I'm not aware that it's only for females...
You mentioned that mother taking leave for children's needs is more acceptable. True. But there are some bosses who frown on employing married ladies or even ladies who have young children.... married/single men have a better chance at their careers over married women.
I think it's just not possible to compare. Men and Women are made differently to begin with. Biologically, I mean.
There are some women who take advantage of the laws. There are also men who take advantage of the laws which try to protect women.
You'd be surprised that there is still stigma today. It may be changing but it can't be eliminated not even in our kids' generation. As long as religion is strong, we are an asian society, divorce will always be frowned upon.