70K debts !!!!!!

medic2009

New Member
Can anyone help on my question

I owe credit card company of about 70k,i have stop paying for 4-5months. Now i'm selling my flat and will have some money coming in, if i put all the money into my wife's account and think of going to self declare. Can they do anything to my wife which i put all the money into her acc?

What i worry is if i change address they will know that i sells my flat away.Do they have the rights to check with HDB how much the flat sold,how much cash i take back?

Please advice

Thanks
 


rofthelper

Member
Hi SoSo, is your former flat co-owned by both your wife and yourself? If you self-declare for bankruptcy, you have to declare your property (past and present) in your statement of affairs. Please note that your creditors can apply to high court to recover your profits from your flat if they found out that you are trying to evade paying your creditors. That's why you must be "smart" in filling out the statement of affairs.

It will be advisable not to deposit the 70k into your wife account at the moment. Maybe some other family members or relatives instead.

These creditors have their ways in checking with your estimated sale and profits, but not with the HDB.

No worries, you can change your address anytime after selling your flat.
 

its_fate

Active Member
Guess that is not the main concern how TS chalk up to such a huge debts...

TS's main concern is how to get out to "cheat" by not repaying the debts... =)
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Getting bankrupt over 70k isn't very good idea frankly. Is it worth it?

The court have every right to repossess assets co-owned between u and your spouse.
 

its_fate

Active Member
milo - If one have thought of it, will he/she resort to such way? Best thing is got $$ still dun want to repay and want to declare bankrupt... HUH!

So Despicable.. "My $$ is my $$".. "Bank $$ oso my $$".. Public $$ oso my $$"".. =)
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Iris, I wouldn't say its despicable. I'm not so incorruptable. If you place 100M on the table, I would definitely be tempted to be a bankrupt over it. But 70k? We earn that over a period of 1 yr or less??
 

its_fate

Active Member
milo - I am sorry.. Had bad memories flashed past when reading TS's post...

May not be similar to what TS had said, but it's more or less like OUT TO CHEAT Behaviour....

My friend's parents started a tontine. Alot of neighbourhood uncles & aunties believe in them and started paying... It booms up to alot of $$$.. Due to greed, the father decide to "runaway"... My friend & family moved house secretly. Cannot remember how exactly the whole incident but utimately, the father was caught..

Can U imagine, when they reappeared after the father release from jail, all are wearing big chunk of jewellary, branded goods, drive Merc/BMW!! Really duno how much they have cheated!!! Those old uncles & aunties' $$$ can never be recovered coz the father admitted his wrongdoings alone, said all $ gone due gambling. He went to jail but not my friend's mother!

All of us know they are enjoying the $$$ from this unscrupulous act but what can the old people do coz Tontine itself is not legalise yet.. Of coz others may said it's oso due to Greed from these old people.

Somehow in TS's post, I have this feeling that he "wants" to enjoy the luxury though have declare bankrupt... "No $ to repay what, what can U do to me"?!
 

clipperjunk

New Member
if it's a hdb flat you're selling then it's a mistake, your proceeds will be taken to repay the debt...any monies you give away must be more than 5 years before your debtors begin their claim...your hdb flat is the only thing they can't claim against, except if it's owed to the hdb...
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
Iris, that's why i think its not worth it. $70k cannot afford much luxury really. Maybe a Toyota 1.6l. Stupid for anyone to try to cheat such small amt $$$ when we weigh against the odds.
 

medic2009

New Member
In d first place, i thinking of selling my flat to pay off the debts but now.... i rather use the 70k to start up a business to fight...
 

its_fate

Active Member
ya right... not forgetting U still owe the Credit Card Company 70K... Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......

Is it my understanding that lousy, one would rather use the $ to start a business than clear debts??? OMG!!.. *par pok, par pok*
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
will be difficult to expand any biz with a bad credit history.

And I suspect no one would like to be a guarantor for you either.
 

simpleman

Active Member
"Is it my understanding that lousy, one would rather use the $ to start a business than clear debts??? "

Why not? If the business plan is good and will bring in money.. the debts can be cleared.. if the plan is lousy.. then owing 70K or 140K not much of a difference..

I guess most Singaporeans being kia su will not incur more debts to start a business. But some times it will drive you to desperation so that you will be more determined to succeed.
 

its_fate

Active Member
sm - First, he owe 70K. Next, he wants to sell away the HDB to "churn" in $$. Instead of repaying, he wants to declare bankrupt. Then he use the whatever $$ to do business..... Does it make sense???

Which joker wants to be that guarantor?
 

medic2009

New Member
Hi doll, im in furniture trade since year 2000. at that time can earn about 3-4k every month,so the more u earn the more u spent. So most of the people here think i sgould pay off the debts?
 

sgbabydoll

Active Member
SM, the way he "banks" on his business plan sounds more like a gambler thinking that the next bet would win back all money lost. If he can afford to lose the $70K, yes, go start a business.
 

powder

Active Member
SOSO,

if u're certain of your biz plans, and u have the Discipline to really focus on the biz, then definitely i'll say forget the banks and just focus on the biz.

the chance is 50/50, it's up to u and your Discipline to make it 70/30... just make sure your info and knowledge of what u can/cannot do - is Tip-Top. dun halfway thru the biz find that being a bankrupt limits your biz or even puts it to the sword. or limits what u Can/Cannot do... then u'll find yourself in a deeper hole. a general rule is - only 10% of biz survive the 1st 3yrs, and out of this 10% only 2-3% make good money, so take note.

u Must understand 1 thing - u might tend to let a little 'success' get to your head and That Shows on your spending which got u into this trouble in the first place. So u Better watch it If u decide to follow your plan...

earn 3-4k a month already spend like that... u really need to wake up and stop living in your little well (u know the frog in the well who thinks he's king?). 3-4k is actually very little money, i dun know who gave u the impression that this amount of money allows u to spend like that...
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
"so the more u earn the more u spent"
powder, u r correct, incurring a debt of $70k with with a $3-4k income is totally out of this world. Not forgetting that for the self-employed, there is no incentives like insurance protection.

why go into biz to make $3-4k? I'm skeptical about his new biz plan. If lucky, it will help him make $5-6k monthly and get him into debt over 100k? He hasn't learn his lesson at all.
 

acextreme

New Member
Oh, don't encourage him the wrong way, even with the perfect business plan, that doesn't mean it can be executed perfectly. In business, there's no such thing as certainty. If the TS thinks that he can execute his perfect business plan perfectly and he is sure to succeed, I think he is too naive and should rethink his strategy. Maybe the TS need to go back to school and learn some more business skills for business is an art, and art comes from experience and practice. Seeing from how you posted here, you probably don't have much business experience to begin with.

Secondly, with your kind of thinking, I doubt you are in any sense ethical. Business without ethics will get you nowhere. Trust is most important when doing business, even more so in an Asian context. With your intention to declare bankruptcy so as to evade the 70k you owe the bank which you should rightfully repay is an unethical behavior and unscrupulous to say the least. Who would want to do business with a person of such predisposition? And with this kind of thinking, you won't get far.

Lastly, with backruptcy, it's hard for you to own a business; in fact, with my limited knowledge, you cannot manage or own a business, whether directly or indirectly; how the rest think you can is unfathomable from my perspective; my advice, do your proper research. There's a lot of restrictions placed on your freedom, so I suggest you do proper research on your naive route and learn about the downsides of your approach and re-evaluate whether this option is really feasible. If you still think so, I think you are simply not cut out to be in the business world, maybe you would be more suited for the underworld of business (i.e. illegal businesses).

P.S. FYI, I registered just to post this, seeing how the rest don't really know how to advise you, lest you get encouraged the wrong way.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
not so much about his biz plans. Even if its sound.

His spending habits IS THE PROBLEM.
"at that time can earn about 3-4k every month,so the more u earn the more u spent"

i.e. he is spending beyond his own capability.

"seeing how the rest don't really know how to advise you, lest you get encouraged the wrong way." WAH... the guru is here to teach us. Who's encouraging him? Selective reading??
 

acextreme

New Member
@ MiLo:

Well, look at "sm (simpleman)" and powder's responses (I'd have to say you are excluded); you will just give him the impression that he can go ahead though it's not ethical by talking into business plans, advising him on setting up businesses and all that. Furthermore, no one has yet told him as a bunkrupt, you can't own/manage a business. That is the main point that you all need to tell him - he is a bankrupt and will be jailed if caught owning or managing directly or indirectly any businesses. So there is simply no need to entertain him with regards to setting up a business and how he should not do that if he has debts; he just can't legally.
 

powder

Active Member
Ace,

your first post made some sense, but i think u carried it too far by turning your admittedly limited knowledge into a Fact which u're shoving in my face.

1stly, i did not advise him on "setting up businesses and all that", i advised him on the Mental preparation required Before he sets forth on the path he decides to take...

2ndly, u need to widen your definition of 'business' and not just think of traditional/conventional forms of business...

3rdly, "he just can't legally" - Are You Sure?

your interpretation is flawed. u've basically made it some undeniable Crime where imprisonment is a definite penalty IF u own/manage a biz... Are You Sure?
 

acextreme

New Member
Powder,

Sorry if I sounded all high and mighty; that's not my intention. As you said, you advised him on the mental preparation required before he sets off to do business, but with his current warped mindset, there is a high probability he would take it as you are encouraging and guiding him; with an irrational person of such crazy thinking of not paying 70k and rather go bankrupt and start a business, he most likely looks at things in a hyper-optimistically irrational manner and your posts will seem to be supportive of his intention, which would have draconian consequences to him and other people.

Anyway, as was posted in my previous post, undischarged bankrupts are not able to set up or manage a business, whether directly or indirectly. You'd be jailed and/or fined, as cited from the link.
 

dar_da

New Member
"the chance is 50/50, it's up to u and your Discipline to make it 70/30... just make sure your info and knowledge of what u can/cannot do - is Tip-Top. dun halfway thru the biz find that being a bankrupt limits your biz or even puts it to the sword. or limits what u Can/Cannot do... then u'll find yourself in a deeper hole. a general rule is - only 10% of biz survive the 1st 3yrs, and out of this 10% only 2-3% make good money, so take note. "

Powder did advice the TS to check up the limitations of being a bankrupt. Since there is no way he can start or involved in a business as written in the MOL website "Managing Businesses Or Corporations

It is an offence under the Companies Act and the Business Registration Act for you to play a direct or indirect part in the management of a company or a business or to act as a director of a company without the sanction of the Court or the Official Assignee. The offence is punishable with imprisonment of up to 2 years and fine up to $10,000 or both. For more information please refer to our pamplet on managing businesses or corporations. "

I just hope that TS should not flirt with the LAW as he seems to be a RISK lover and have a simply optimistic view on Bankruptcy. Thanks Ace for sharing this informative link and congrats TS for his ability to seek help before he is at dire straits


Regards
Dar_da Love
smile.gif
 

powder

Active Member
Ace,

i know where u're coming from on the advice, but i think my message is clear... if it's misconstrued by him, i cannot be held responsible. Besides, i dun see a point posting to him as if he was totally dumb, but i made my 1st post a very obvious hint - "hope your biz plans are good and u suddenly turn into a wealthy and powerful undischarged bankrupt."

u should re-read the link u gave me. based on the info there, it's not an absolute, and imprisonment isn't a definite. 1stly it is on management & directorship, ownership remains Grey; 2ndly, u can obtain permission and get a sanction from the courts.

we are a law-abiding country, sometimes to the point where u lookout for rules to follow them Even if it inconveniences us... it's a very local mentality. 1 point tat i'd like to make is - there are avenues to address, appeal, gain permission or waivers. the rules are there as a guide and place markers, but there will be occasions where 'Greater-Good' might call on us to toe the lines.

lastly Business does not mean registering a biz, renting a place, and going into a trade of products. the definition is very wide... Trading is a form of business, direct-sales and MLM are forms of business, brokerage/middle-men jobs are businesses, freelancing work are businesses. most of these are very low cost startup or zero. they Are avenues and we should not discount the intentions.

must add that i am skeptical tho... but i dun insist tat he "cannot".

for a 70k debt, no doubt it's not wise to be a bankrupt. but IF the path of bankruptcy is indeed taken, what next? obviously some choose a regular income over x-number of years before being discharged. some will opt to take a gamble and do something that churns faster income.
 

miloice

Well-Known Member
ace, not only do u need to exclude me, LOOK AT how many people posted. Its not just SM and Powder.

"seeing how the rest don't really know how to advise you".

And powder didn't encourage him. In fact advised him to wake up and pointed out his unrealistic spending. But, he indeed has a workable & sound biz plan, who are we to determine its success or failure??

Laws are rigid but its interpretation isn't. I have known people that are bankrupt but continue holding key positions in businesses. And my own dad was once a bankrupt too.
 

germicide

New Member
Hi buddy I hope you are still in the thread,

debt consolidation consultant is your best bet!!! I chance upon this company (while looking for independant financial consultant) who will negotiate with the banks ALTOGETHER for you so you pay less interest %. Very effective. Go see them now!!! Its definitely an emergency!!!
 

mark78

Active Member
Germaine, please kindly advise why DEBT consolidation Consultant will be necessary. Why not the person in question contact the Special debt department or whatever credit mgr and do the negotiation himself?

imho, all bank want to reduce their bad debts they will be more happy to come up with some installment plan and yes reduce interest rate to aid repayment even without the intervention of this consultant.
 

hapimint

New Member
Go work out an installment plan with the bank...

This happened to a relative of mine some years back... The debt amount is equal or greater than yours.... and is also incurred by CC debts...

I think the wife took out all her savings and helped pay some... The rest, they actually approached a bank, loan the money to pay off all the CC bills as the interest is super high.

And they nego with the bank on the interest of the loan and spend the next few years paying back the loan on a monthly installment basis....

You do not have to sell your house for a 70k debt... You just need to do adjustments and also change your spending habits....
 

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