BEWARE OF FAKE PHOTOGRAPHER"

dkny6826

Member
2 shots of my husband wearing the ring for me and 3 shots of me putting on the rings for him.


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m_and_n

New Member
David, I believe so the couple have to put on at a certain angle for the photographer to capture the shots.

Can i check with you, 2nd last shot is blurred. would you give blurred pictures to the client or at your own end you will delete if away. I don't see a point giving blurred pictures to client.

Whats your professional opinion on that? I would just like to have an open discussion on what are typical PG practices.
 

fotoudavid

New Member
Hi Mic,

I will not give blurred pics to clients, as they will never use, and also how to deliver blurr pics to clients.

Unless the blurr pics look nice, else no no.
 

m_and_n

New Member
Thanks for prompt answer. I believe that should be the case for most PGs.

1) How to answer to client
2) give already also no use.. lol..

At least i'm assured my friend will be in good hands, she just signed up with fotou .. lol.

Merry Xmas David!
 

fotoudavid

New Member
Hi,

Merry Christmas to you Mic and everyone here!!!

Shd let the case rest, just delete the pics, and everyone keep quiet very nice, as Christmas is about sharing and caring.

By the way, Foto-U got 9 photographers and 1 makeup artist for all occassions, lobang for advertisement.
 

tasmania

Member
dkny,

to be fair to bob,
not easy to take such pic, especially everything happen so fast. communication is important. Couple should have inform photographer they care about showing the rings in the pic, so that photographer can guide couple how to put on the ring. take shot at certain angle. Look at the fingers, totally cover the rings. how to take shots with ring? couple and photographer have to work closely in order to get good pic

btw, your husband's watch is nice nice
happy.gif


Oya.. Merry Christmas to everyone here.
 

zcerd

New Member
Arizona,

I think Photographer SHOULD know that it is a standard must have shot for the ring part.


So its either photographer never teach the couple what to do before hand, or the couple too excited that they forget what has been told to do.
 

drew_drew

New Member
i think this BOB is not right by posting his quotation above. He is trying to get more business thru this thread ?

Based on a woman's instinct and 2 sides story, I will trust dkny.

Dkny, I dont know you but I hope you can recover from this and move on...dont need to dewell on this. The truth will be out one day if the person dont change its attitude.
 

sylvia7an

New Member
erina, i can now understand your frustrations after looking at the photos above. and i totally agree that PG should not hand any 'unprofessionally' taken photos to their clients. whether raw or not.

isn't it a way to self-tarnish your reputation? even if the brides or grooms keep it to themself, who will still recommend such PG to their friends?
 

zcerd

New Member
I guess this matter shows that if u want to entrust your wedding to someone who just start shooting actual day photography, its your own risk.

I rather my photographer not having so many wedding to shoot as it will more or less affect the quality of the photo. why? because if he dont rush it out, ppl will chase for it.

I dont mind paying more for quality work. U get what u pay.

Have u guys wonder why some charge so low while some charge higher? because of photography passion? *laugh*
 

simong

New Member
how can give blur pics to client?

from the way i see the pics posted by the bride.
no communication between couple and cameraman
 

flora_bliss

New Member
dkny, pls do not misunderstand the intention of my latest posting. I'm not trying take side with anyone. And I'm definitely not trying to "finger point" the fault to anyone. I truly sympathise the situation you are in.

I just want to appease the situation. That's all... Perhaps i should have kept my mouth shut.
 

tasmania

Member
a good studio/outdoor PG might not be a good AD PG
IMHO, AD PG must react fast, control the crowd.. is more challenging than studio/outdoor PG.
 

poggy

New Member
michael:
I agree. No pt giving blur shots (or under/over exposed shots for that matter) to client cos all it will do is to lower your standard in their eyes.

luvflower:
I think bobman wants to show how competitive his package is, but to prospective brides thinking that his package is good because it has 2 PGs, do note that Bobman does occasionally get strangers to be his 2nd PG and he only meets them for the first time on the AD itself. So he won't know their standard, what equipment they use, how their character is and all that. And these 2nd PGs don't even get paid at all, he's just giving them a chance to expand their portfolio by letting them tag along with him, so he gains because he gets alternate angles for free and the 2nd PG gains by 'paying' for his AD shoot tuition by spending 12-16 hours of his time shooting.
So all I'm saying is don't take it for granted his package is a great deal because u get 2 PGs for the price of 1. For all you know, the 2nd PG might shoot like a 10 year old.
happy.gif
 

poggy

New Member
Let me give an alternate point of view now.

Dkny,
Did u tell Bob that u value the shots of the rings? Because if u didn't, he might think it's better to take full body shots of both of you putting on the ring rather than zooming in at the rings. Again it's about communication, u might say the PG should know all these, but he can't read your mind plus different couples have different expectations. Other couples might prefer the act of putting on the rings and they want to see their faces doing it. Maybe if he zoomed in and then u might say 'Why never show our faces at all?' and it would become another point of contention.
Of course in an ideal world, the PG can take a wide variety of shots, some zoomed in, some wide angle but in reality, a PG is limited by a lot of things like
1) the environment - he might be blocked by physical objects or people
2) lighting - maybe the lighting wasn't good at a different position?
3) equipment - he could have been using a wideangle lens at that time, then no time to change and maybe he reached the end of the zoom. Some PGs carry 2 cameras at the same time so that they don't have to swap lenses to get a wider zoom range, but u'll probably pay a premium for this.
4) timing - critical parts of weddings happen very fast and they are not posed shots either. Most of the time once u miss it, it's gone. So alot of PGs compensate by shooting in burst mode so u get a lot of shots in a short period of time. Good thing is if the angle is good, u get a lot of nice shots to choose from. Bad thing if the angle isn't good, u get a lot of similiar-looking mediocre shots.
5) Skills/Experience - U can have the best equipment in the world but it's the man behind the cam that's most important. If u bother to search up on him in clubsnap, he only started doing wedding shoots professionally recently so in terms of experience, he's still got a long way to go.

At the end of the day, it's all about the couple choosing the right PG with the right 'frequency' as them and also expectations must be matched. Experience can be gained over time. I'm sure Bob will improve as he shoots more, but his attitude and integrity must change for the better now, like did he lie when he said he called your husband and your husband apologised even though he wasn't in SG? And the fiasco in clubsnap about him owing people money...Hmmm...
 

tasmania

Member
Poggy, how do you know about this 2nd PG thingy?
if this is true, He is "smart" in term of earning money from both client and 2nd PG
 

jessipper

New Member
Fotoudavid: "By the way, Foto-U got 9 photographers and 1 makeup artist for all occassions, lobang for advertisement."

I think it is not nice to promoto your services here! I am sorri if i may be too direct.
 

zcerd

New Member
5) Skills/Experience - U can have the best equipment in the world but it's the man behind the cam that's most important.

I guess he still lack of it. thats why the cheap price. again, U get what u pay.

For experience photographer, they SHOULD know what to take or should ask the couple, not wait until the couple to tell him.

I think its common sense that wedding rings are Important. If i have to tell my photographer that wedding ring is important... I think he's better off learning from those who have been shooting for many yrs first. But then.. for that price.. heh..
To all those 'problem' u mention, I guess if bobman is really experiences enough, he should know what to do, when to move , how to shoot.
 

poggy

New Member
Arizona,
U can search clubsnap on his posts, there's a thread where he asks for AD kakis to shoot with him.

http://clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315458

If u're really really curious, u can pm them to ask how their experience was shooting with him.
happy.gif


Well I won't say he's 'smart' but he's definitely not original though, PGs have been doing this for quite a long time already. It's a good opportunity for aspiring wedding PGs to practise and in return, the main PG gets to use their work. Of cse the ethical question would be does the main PG tell the couple that the 2nd PG is a newbie and whether the main PG will tell the couple which pics were shot by him and which were not, else the couple might wrongly assume all the pics were shot by the main PG himself. If the 2nd PG is under the payroll of the main PG, its fine,but if not, then ethical issues arise.
 

poggy

New Member
zcerd, it's different strokes for different folks.
U might think the rings are impt, I might think getting the faces and expression is more impt.
Doesn't matter who's right or wrong cos it's personal preference. Anyway while in retrospect, Bob should have taken a wider variety of shots to please a wider audience, you can put it down to him being new to this and also the package is cheaper, so the peanuts and monkees thing comes to mind again.
I think dkny brought it up as a by-the-way kind of thing, her main prob should be with his attitude and how he handled her as a customer.
 

luther

New Member
it is blur bcos he is shooting at F8 - F10 at shutter speed 1/10s to 1/15s for the ring shot. No one in this world would be crazy engh to shoot in that settling.
 

tasmania

Member
then he should tell the couple he will bring newbie to learn the rope and not charging the poor couple 2 headcount for professional PG service
 

tasmania

Member
luther,

how do you know about the setting of the PS?
the setting F8-F10 speed 1/10s to 1/15s is for what kind of shoot?
 

luther

New Member
there is program called Opanda IExif. I can check the settling of photo when it is posted online. Alternatively , u can save the image on ur harddrive and right click on the image. click on the Properties, then click on the Advanced Tab on the lower right. It will reveal the type of camera the PG is using and the general settling.

For that kind of shot at least a F4 and 1/60s - 1/80s to get sharp image.. I am not sure why he is in that settling as photos will be blur no matter how steady ur handheld can be.
 

tasmania

Member
maybe setting F8-F10 1/10s to 1/15s is for prewedding studio shoot or outdoor shoot? possible? i believe you need a tripod if you have that setting. right?
 

luther

New Member
that not possible, these setting will nvner be used in my wedding shoot. I dun want my clients photos to be blur. It is of no use to them nor me. Tripod or no tripod .
 

weddingatbobman

New Member
I will just say a few words about this one. As I had explain to my couples before they sign up with me that the 2nd photographer is actually hobbyist or someone looking for portfolio. And they are not paying them but I am so even you then wish to have a second photographer, you still pay the same rate and no discount.

For one I am helping some hobbyist who wishes to build up their portfolios and secondly to give the couple some extra shots when at certain time I could not be at that position.eg the groom's house or inside the house during gate crash or while doing table shots others can do candids during banquet. I didn't charge the couple for the second photographer and certainly I pay all expenses like transportation n food for my second photographers.

Sometimes when I try to do something to benefit both parties, it always got back unrewarded. Anyway, if thats the way you guys think, I have nothing to say.

At some weddings, I even brought 4 photographers with me for them to shoot of course with the permission from the couple and I explain to them that they are just junior and shooting for experience. They understood and agreed to it.

Whether the couple chooses their shots are entirely up to the couple becos ultimately, I am the one who will give them my images.

As to how and why I make images this way is entirely up to individual, so I will not elaborate on that. In the end, I still be able to produce decent shots for my couple.

Please do not speculate this or that when you are not in present when I have conversation with the couple before the signing on my package.

Lastly, how you guys look at things are entirely up to you. I never cheated any couple of anything. We work from more than 16 hours and some up to 24 hours, we still get the job done.

Sometimes arguments are won by how clever he can lie and how much support he got. As you can see from here, too many new nicks and the words are so inconsistence.

For what I know, I stand firmly with my 2 feet on this ground, the earth is my witness....

Cheers...
 

weddingatbobman

New Member
Luther,

As long as my images are REAL, created by me and I DON'T USE OTHERS PHOTO AND TREATED AS MINE, I am proud of my creation. In another words, I don't leech. I hope you know what I meant.
 

tasmania

Member
dkny,

finally, your pics have been removed from the link.

wedding is suppose to be a happy occasion. let this rest and forget about all unhappiness and get another PG for your AD. remember, must communicate well with your next PG
happy.gif
 

jessipper

New Member
To fotoudavid:

I know you are a advertiser but should you have your own thread to post your services? This thread is between dkny and bobman and what i mean is i dont think it is nice you advertise here.
 

fotoudavid

New Member
Jess,

U have ur tots, i also entitle my tots. There are nothing i can do to if it's bother u. Anyway i have my own thread, and since u say it's between bob and dkny, why are u bothered abt it?

Nice or not nice it's all up to individual. U dun think it is nice for me to do so, but maybe it will help another btb save her day.

Coins have 2 sides, it's up to individual to take which sides as nice. Dun be surprise later another btb come here and say thk u to me.

This thread have teach me a lesson, and i will be bring up to the associations, cos black listing must be tougher in the future.

There will be an association for future BTBs, for them to find out who can be trusted, who have been black listed.
 

sandyip23

New Member
David,

I think Jess is right. By reading the thread, it seems that you acted like an investigation officer.

I think we should respect the parties concern and let dkny and bobman settle among themselves. As to who is in the right or who is in the wrong, only they will know. We should not pass judgement on them.
 

fotoudavid

New Member
i am not acting like an investigation officer, who am i to do so?

i respect bob and also dkny, i never say who is right and who is wrong, did i?

I rest my case, so many incidents among photographers and couples, thats why i must suggest implement tougher penalties.
 

sandyip23

New Member
Who should decide "tougher penalties"??? You????? Which association are you talking about???? Is it recognise by our government????
 

fotoudavid

New Member
I am talking abt the association of wedding photographers setted up by me and other weddings photographers.

I cannot put the name here, as Singaporebrides felt it is a threat to their bussiness.

It had been registered and recognise by singapore govenment.

There will be launching of it, and as i mention above, SGbrides dun like it, i cannot put the names of ppl involve, but u will be surprised by some big names in it.

Why i initial this, cos too many photographers not serious enough are hurting the market and weddings couples.
 

jessipper

New Member
David - fotou:

I think you got it all wrong. I dont mean you cant post anything here but instead of helping out to resolve the problem, you actually trying to promote your services. For what? What is the point of telling people you have 9 photographers and a make-up artist in your team? It doesnt help to solve anything here, just promoting yourself.
 

sandyip23

New Member
So you are on board and also a wedding photographer, aren't there will be prejudice and bias? Because many wedding photographers will be your competitors too and so you can blacklist photographers at your own wish.

How do you determine which photographers are not serious enough and hurting the market and weddings couple? Does your association setup a session to investigate both parties? Or just by your judgement?
 

sandyip23

New Member
Jess,

I think this thread is going to be a HOT thread to read by many BTBs, maybe he is trying to promote his service in here. My guess.
 

fotoudavid

New Member
i did, u must read my post again, dkny never answer.

anyway, this thread suppose to be dead, so i will not come to this thread anymore.
 

fotoudavid

New Member
"So you are on board and also a wedding photographer, aren't there will be prejudice and bias? Because many wedding photographers will be your competitors too and so you can blacklist photographers at your own wish.

How do you determine which photographers are not serious enough and hurting the market and weddings couple? Does your association setup a session to investigate both parties? Or just by your judgement?"

This i must answer:

Do u know that as a board, u think can run this associations like a kindergarden? This is a association that will be run by 15 committee members and handling a few hundreds photographers, u think i will do that?

Also, i have my integrity and i will never blacklist ppl as i wish, U ARE INSULTING ME!!!

Rest assure the commitee that will handle complaints will be investigating the whole issue, not by MY JUDGEMENT!!

AGAIN, U ARE INSULTING ME AND THE REST OF THE MEMBERS IN IT!!!
 

sandyip23

New Member
David, why are you so work up? I am just trying to understand your association and how it operates? In what way am I insulting you or your members?

Please don't act like a child.
 

sandyip23

New Member
BTW, am I right to say that if there is any complaints in Singaporebrides, you will direct them to your association for hearing? Or do you encourage us, BTBs to join your association?

Also in your years as a wedding photographers, do you have any bride complaining about your service or unsatisfactory photos? If there is how will your association look into this matter cos you are on board too, will there be bias?
 

fotoudavid

New Member
i will rest here.

read ur own posting, u call that not insulting???

i am worked up cos u are insulting those members and me that worked so hard with no pay, seeting up a assoviation to benifits photographers and weddings couples, and this is what they get.

By the way u post, u have absolutly no ideal how association was form, run and conduct.

being a muture person will not post such comments on a association.

will never step in here and argue with ladies, shall let other though abt this, read the post.
 


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